 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark P.
Date: 1999-12-04 20:47
I just bought a Conn Albert system clarinet on eBay and received it today and it is the oddest Albert I have ever seen. It's an A clarinet in Low Pitch and dates from 1905 based on the Conn seriel number list (9736). It's made out of that steel ebonite that Conn used in the early part of the century. What really makes it odd is the keywork, unlike anything I have seen before.
It has a thumb ring which accutates a connection to the top trill key on the upper joint, the throat Ab key also can actuate this trill key. There are 4 trill keys on the upper joint which accuate 5 holes. It has an aticulated C#/G# key mounted on the lower joint which is activated using the F#/C# side key. There is a most interesting arrangement on the top hole of the lower joint which doesn't have a ring on the basic Albert... this has a ring AND a full pad and the ring activates an alternate Eb/Ab pad right under the C/F and Eb/Ab roller keys.
As usual for an eBay find, the pads are shot and it's unplayable. Anyone seen another like this?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-05 01:40
I have a Conn also which seems to be quite similar to your description ,I'll compare details, but it is a very peculiar keying system. As best I've figured it out, its a version of the turn-of-the-century Clinton-Boehm. Look in some of the older cl books, Rendall and Baines; in particular, Pino and Brymer have quite a bit to say about the C-B. Mine is quite unplayable but I'm sure we each have a true museum piece. Will be glad to discuss further. Don
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Author: ron
Date: 1999-12-05 04:39
Hi, Mark -
I saw that one too and thought it looked like some pretty unusual keyworks. If I remember right, it has a long middle Ab key like some older made-in-England horns but that probably means nothing. Please let us know how it does when you have it up and playing. Other than the usual e-Bay shot pads etc., what shape is it in? Are you going to fix it yourself? I remember wondering if it would be tricky regulating the thing, might be a little bit of a challenge that way. It looked like it might offer some interesting fingering combinations though and I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that you and Don have a couple of collectors pieces.
Best to you. Looks like a fun horn.
Ron
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Author: Mark P.
Date: 1999-12-05 13:35
I looked in my copies of Brymer and Baines, nothing like it in either one. It's deffinitely not a Boehm-Clinton hybrid, nor is it a Clinton or Oehler. It's just wierd! I have a newer Conn ALbert that has 5 rings and and extra trill key on the top stack and the left hand Ab/Eb lever. But this one has the most unusual keywork I have seen, I'd love to find an old Conn catalog from that period and see if it is in there.
I may contact that Ph.D. at the Shrine of Music who's been studying the Conn company's history.
As for getting it working, I don't know. I don't have a lot of time to mess with it and I've given my instrument repairman enough business this year! For now it will go on display with all the other odd clarinets I've found on eBay.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-05 14:36
You may well be correct, Mark, I've had problems trying to identify mine. If you contact Vermillion, please include my serial no, Conn-Elkhart, plastic [H R ?], B22613H. I'll find time to compare it to yours and the book info. Don
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Author: Bill
Date: 1999-12-07 18:53
don, i suppose i am just being captious, but you are aware your B22xxxH clarinet is a high-pitched instrument?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-07 23:22
Thanx, Bill, I really have not played it at all recently since it has several problems and I did suspect the high pitch [the H, I guess] right? I'm sure I could get an open G, A, Bb at least out of it, but have had more interesting research questions. Will get around to comparison with the above, soon I hope! TKS, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-09 18:38
From your well-written description of the "unusual" clar., I am sure mine is the same model. Yes, I have given up calling it a "Clinton-Boehm". As best I can see ours are a combination of several [at the time] "revolutionary" developments of the late 1800-early 1900 era, which I havent found so far in what books I have. The most related info was from Wilhelm Altenburg [Ger] articles-book?, translated by Himie Voxman and "emended" by Harry Bettoney and apparently only published in the Woodwind Magazine Vol 2 # 10 June-July 1950 [early ICA publ.?], just happen to have copies of 3 of the series!! Several late 1800's patents are discussed, the one [of which I may have a copy] to P Pupeschi [Italy] US 512,449 Jan. 1894 shows the artic. C#/G# actuated by any left L F key!! Its a common saxophone structure now! A library reference librarian could obtain a copy I believe, or I can help further. As to the other "unusuals" the side trill key structure prob. was to provide cleaner and easier-to-finger mid-staff Bb, a bit like the 1950's Selmer's Mazzeo model, and the thumb-actuated structure like some more-modern bass clar double register key linkages [LeBlanc?], no ancestry known, prob. need to tour museums!!! As I said before, we may find out more from some of the antique-experts on the Onelist E C [E Mail]site. 'Nuff for now. Don
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Author: Mark P.
Date: 1999-12-10 11:54
Thanks for your research, Don. Probably after the holidays I'll take it up to my repair tech and see if he's seen one like it. Not sure I'll ask him to overhaul it though, he said the last Conn ebonite Albert clarinet he repadded for me was a real chore and he'll probably double his normal fee for this one.... LOL.
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Author: jim lande@ erols.com
Date: 1999-12-11 04:45
Why would an albert be harder to restore than a boehm?
Fewer pads and generally simpler mechanisms? I have only restored two simple systems, so maybe I am wrong when we get to the more interesting keywork.
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Author: Mark P.
Date: 1999-12-11 13:41
Jim,
My tech's chief complaint with the more normal 1921 Conn Albert was that the C#/G# tone hole on the upper joint was not shaped, Conn had simply left a flat area around the tone hole. I've seen several old clarinets with this arrangement so I should say that it's not strictly a Conn or Albert issue. In any event, it took a number of tries to seat the pad properly while all the other pads were very straight forward to seat.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-11 21:19
For those who wish to follow this thread which relates to the transition from Albert to Boehm systems , Mark 's P and C in particular, I suggest you look at the posts on the www.onelist/earlyclarinet site for progress in info retrieval. Don
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