 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: johnjon
Date: 2004-02-28 18:20
Has anyone ever heard of a 20 key Selmer clarinet? Someone has asked me to look for one for him to purchase, but I have never heard of it. Is he pulling my leg. Thanks
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-02-28 19:35
A 20 key key clarinet would be a full Boehm model which has in addition to the regular 17 keys and 6 rings of most models: a low Eb, a left hand Eb/Ab key, articulated G#/C# mechanism (with an extra trill key), and a forked Bb/Eb. I play a semi- full Boehm (no low Eb) Leblanc LL. I find the extra keywork useful. But these extra key models can be hard to find. My LL was a special order. I had to wait about six months for it.
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Author: johnjon
Date: 2004-02-29 16:22
Thanks for taking your time to answer the question. I knew someone would know the answer. I appreciate it.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2004-02-29 16:24
Johnjon, a few FB's have shown up on Ebay lately. I got an R13FB for $400 there a few years ago. It's worth a look.
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Author: Chris Chaloner
Date: 2004-03-01 22:27
My old Selmer Series 9 seems to have 20 keys. It goes down to Eflat and has the LH Eflat and extra fork keys etc as Robert Small describes. One oddity of the keywok is that it's not possible to use the long fingering fo high F (above the 4th ledger line) because of the way the rings work.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-03-02 04:51
The articulated G#/C# mechanism apparently precludes certain altissimo fingerings. For this reason many players don't like it. But I find that certain sequences of notes in the chalumeau and clarion registers are extremely difficult without it. So for me the advantages outweigh the negatives. But I'm a jazz sax player and clarinet doubler so alternate altissimo fingerings are something I'm probably not going to need.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-03-02 14:12
I have 3 Full Boehms, a 1920's Penzel-Mueller [gave an earlier one to a good friend], it was/is my first good cl [ah Memories], an early [rosewood?] Selmer, a Sel R I model [1932] . Another G F let me work on his Buffet, ?'30's? also, later model [small pad/key] than the "donut" key model[Eb/Bb], very complex C#/G# mechanism!! I play them on occasion when I need the best [to me] of the 4 additions, the alternate Ab/Eb lever. Do enjoy the clean C# from the properly-located [tenon] tone hole ], the fork's convenience, and using the "low Eb for a good-toned, convenient [at times] mid-staff Bb. I believe all [Big 4] makers still sell them, not sure of Yamaha tho, and like Leblanc, sell the "partial' FB-addition models, like their Pete F's and earliers. The good features out-weigh the poors IMHO. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-03 13:48
(Robert Small)>> The articulated G#/C# mechanism apparently precludes certain altissimo fingerings. For this reason many players don't like it. But I find that certain sequences of notes in the chalumeau and clarion registers are extremely difficult without it. <<
The hardcore orchestral player will choose extreme difficulty over impossibility every time.
I believe also that the frequent need of adjustment makes articulated or alternate fingering mechanisms less popular the further you go up the virtuosic food chain.
I'm not trying to rank on you, Robert, I'm a jazz doubler myself.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-03-03 15:42
paulw--I have never had to have the articulated G#/C# on my LL adjusted and I've been playing it for about seven years. Claims that the articulated G#/C# mechanism needs frequent adjustment are inaccurate. I'm not ranking on you either. Just correcting a misconception.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-03-06 00:42
Robert, I'm not surprised you haven't had many problems with a new(ish) LL. A 1935 Balanced-Tone Selmer is another matter entirely...<:-/
BTW, just got my 20/7 Breveté back from the shop. The pinkie action sucked, and bent up hinge tubes were to blame. Now - what a difference. Even the alternate 2nd register Bb is easy and clear. Looks like this one's a keeper...
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-03-06 04:52
Three of my clarinets have an articulated G#/C#: my Bb LL (already mentioned), my Patricola eefer, and my Selmer bass clarinet. None has ever had a problem with the articulated mechanism though they've all spent a fair amount of time in the shop for other problems. I figure there's enough to go wrong with the 17/6 layout so that a couple of extra keys shouldn't make too much difference.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-03-06 16:01
Well said, R S, the low Eb has become standard on alto and bass cls, and the better BC's [and AC's] have the C#/G# and the Ab/Eb, but the fork being impossible due to the interlocking character of the plateau keying systems. At least for a while, Leblanc used a lower joint fork for the Ab/Eb, and multiple fork-fingerings on their Model 100 [?] saxes. I have both a Vito and THE Beautiful Leblanc rendition of this "Buck Rogers" sax. They were in competition with Selmer's Mark VI's. Learning how and when to use the fingering diffs here isnt easy!! Have fun! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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