 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ALOMARvelous12
Date: 2004-02-29 16:16
Just curious. If you could give a list of 5-10 specific orchestras past or present that have held a place in your heart, and another list of specific present or historic orchestras that you consider the greatest.
Remember, there is a difference between favorite and greatest. For example, right now I'm practically growing up to Maazel's NYP, often attending their concerts, seeing them at the NYC public parks every summer, watching their live PBS broadcasts, and catching them on the radio whenever I can. I pretty much know the names of all their musicians, but however, I think we can all agree that in terms of greatness, chemistry, and talent, there are a ton of other ensembles that can top them.
For me, my 5 favorite ones:
1. Maazel's New York
2. Abbado's Berlin
3. Reiner's Chicago
4. Barenboim's Chicago
5. Bernstein's New York
I haven't really heard enough to give a good short list of greatest orchestras, but here goes anyway:
1. Abbado's Berlin
2. Vienna Phil (throughout its history)
3. Karajan's Berlin
4. Reiner's Chicago
5. Szell's Cleveland
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2004-02-29 18:58
Best is so subjective, so I'll just list my favorites that are not on your list:
1.Mravinsky/Leningrad - start with their recordings of Tchaikovsky's symphonies 4-6 recorded for Deutshe Gramophone in 1960. They're unreal. Most of their recordings are live concerts and rather flawed, but if you want to hear Russian composers played by the premiere Russian orchestra and conductor, this is what you want.
2.Furtwangler with Berlin, Vienna, or Philharmonia - the greatest Wagner and Bruckner conductor ever, in my opinion. And great for all the other major German romantic composers.
3.Bruno Walter - NY Phil and CBS orchestra - for some reason, I love every Walter recording I've ever heard. And for Mahler and Mozart, he is my absolute favorite.
4.Carlos Kleiber/anyone - every recording by this rather strange man, regardless of the orchestra, is magnificent. Too bad he recorded so little.
5.Kempe/Dresden - especially Richard Strauss works.
6.Jochum/Bavarian Radio Orchestra
7.Stokowski and Ormandy/Philadelphia
8.Toscanini/NBC or NY Philharmonic - Szell and Reiner were just continuing
his work
9.Fricsay/Berlin Radio Orchestra
Post Edited (2004-02-29 19:52)
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-02-29 19:32
Just a few that have consistently stood out among recordings I've heard and owned:
- Cleveland Orchestra - Szell
- NY Philharmonic - Bernstein
- Houston Symphony - Sergiu Comissiona
- Dallas Symphony - Eduardo Mata
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: justwannaplay
Date: 2004-03-01 08:57
Glad to see JessKateDD mention Toscanini and the NBC SO — when I was a kid I listened to their Beethoven 1-9 that my belonged to my dad and I was always riveted by these LPs, and always wanted this set for myself. So I was happy to see that it's been recently re-issued by RCA on CD.
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Author: David
Date: 2004-03-01 15:17
Royal Concertgebouw - Haitink
Academy of St Martin's in the Fields - Marriner
David
Post Edited (2004-03-01 15:17)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-01 15:30
The Royal Amsterdam Concertgebouw is at the moment the finest in the world...their recent foray into Varese with Chailly is one of the finest recordings ever made!!!
I love Karajan and Berlin
Cleveland and Szell
Kempe Statskappelle Dresdener
Orchestre de Paris
Suisse Romande (Orchestre de) based in Zurich.
... is currently a group that plays head over anything in North America except Philly, Cleveland and New York and Chicago...
David Dow
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-01 17:17
Oh, New York Phil always...
and the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra on any day
David Dow
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-03-01 19:06
Nice to see someone (if only a fellow Englishman) mention an English orchestra. But the sometimes bland and mechanical Academy of St Martin in the Fields would not be my choice. How about the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra in its glory days under Simon Rattle - now with the Berlin Phil.
Just a nitpick: The Orchestre de la Suisse Romande is not based in Zurich. "La Suisse Romande" is the French-language term for French-speaking Switzerland. The OSR is based in Geneva. The good people of Zurich speak German (of a kind!)
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2004-03-01 19:48
David, I did mention Furtwangler/Philharmonia, and I am not from the UK. But here's another little list just for you:
JessKateDD's Favorite Limey Orchestras
1.Toscanini/BBC(1930s - Beethoven) and Philharmonia(1952 - Brahms)
2.Barbirolli/Halle
3.Beecham/Royal Philharmonic
4.Klemperer/Philharmonia
5.Karajan/Philharmonia
Feel better? Since it's Lent, this Friday I'll make my meal fish and chips in your honor.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-03-01 20:17
My votes:
North America:
L’Orchestre symphonique de Montréal
Philadelphia Orchestra
Los Angeles Philharmonic
Europe:
Gewandhausorchester, Leipzig
Koninklijk Concertgebouworkest, Amsterdam
Southern:
Melbourne Symphony (especially under Iwaki)
Sydney Symphony (especially when with Maazel as their guest)
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2004-03-01 22:51
For my favorite historical groups:
1. Berlin PO/Karajan- one of the finest ensembles ever put together, one of my favorite Beethoven symphony cycles as well.
2. Cleveland/Szell- always a treat to hear such a precise orchestra. Couple that with a phenominal clarinet section, and it is just awesome.
3. Met Orchestra/Levine- anything with Rabbai I love
4. Chicag/Solti- magnificent brass section
Present Day Favorites
1. Berlin PO/Rattle- Rattle is one of the best conductors alive today and it shows with the BPO.
2. Kirov Orchestra/Gergiev- sounds of the Kirov at Carnegie still fill my head. Gergiev is right up there with Rattle.
3. Vienna PO- still amazing. regardless of gender issues.
4. Concertgebouw Amsterdam/Chailly- Mahler recordings are some of the best around IMHO.
and the Americans...
5. Philadelphia Orchestra- haven't heard since new music director, but the Philly Orch sounds great in Kimmel.
6. Cincinnati Symphony/Jarvi- recent recordings make you wonder how much longer Paavo will stay in Cincy, especially with possible opening in NY and the other CSO open. Not keen on Hawley, but sectional playing is very tight.
7. San Fran/MTT- recent recordings have changed my mind regarding this group. I do not care for the tempi of several of the Mahler recordings, but finely played.
8. Cleveland Orchestra- I have not heard the group with the new music director, and while I think much of the wind section playing is rather bland, the strings make up for it. Not close to the group of the 60s though.
somewhere down the list...
Baltimore Symphony. It is always a treat to hear Barta, and I consider him to have one of the best orchestral clarinet sounds today.
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Author: VCMM
Date: 2004-03-02 07:40
Favorites...
1. Dresden under Kempe, Sawallisch, Jochum, and many others (has a rich, earthy sound... much better than that OTHER German band!)
2. Cleveland under Szell
3. Chicago under Reiner (downhill ever since!)
4. New York under Bernstein
5. Montreal with Dutoit. A very well-oiled machine, but sometimes did go on autopilot. Probably more due to Dutoit than anything else.
Of all these, I think only New York was subpar technically (ie. least precise in execution). However, their scrappy playing and Bernstein's heart-on-sleeve interpretations gave them a very distinctive personality. Check out their Mahler!!
Having said this, I usually pick recordings based more on the conductor, not the orchestra.
Post Edited (2004-03-02 07:41)
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Author: CJB
Date: 2004-03-02 07:42
David
I was going to chime in with CBSO/Rattle - it isn't that I don't think Sakari Oramo is doing a bad job, far from it, but I grew up in Birmingham 1st developing an interest in orchestral music at about the time Rattle took over.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-03-02 11:30
I don't have specific favourites with directors/conductors etc... But I have enjoyed every recording of Royal Concertgebouw and Philharmonia of London (saw them play live last year down here is Oz)... then a little closer to home, I am quite a fan of the Melbourne Symphony. Love the clarinet section and had the great experience of doing a mentor program which allowed me to play in the section doubling 2nd for a week.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-03-02 12:47
Oramo isn't doing a bad job with the CBSO, but he is still lacking in some areas, and doesn't get the orchestra to play anywhere near the level they used to play with Simon Rattle.
My personal favourites include:
Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam
Concentus Musicus, Vienna
Berlin Phil
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-03-02 13:47
My all time favorite orchestra historically is Klemperer and the Philharmonia...Beethoven with a wallop!
David Dow
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-02 14:04
Has anyone not heard the current Detroit Sym?? If not, you're missing some great music.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2004-03-02 14:51
Montreal - Dutoit
Cleveland - Szell
NY - Bernstein
Berlin arajan
Concertgebouw - Haitkin
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Bart
Date: 2004-03-02 20:36
It's a bit surprising that period orchestras have had few if any votes so far, so I thought I'd step in to mention a few I particularly appreciate.
The Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment and a couple of smaller ensembles, such as the Feinstein Ensemble, regularly perform here in London and I've been a happy and frequent visitor over the past few years. David Peacham was quite right in singling out the City of Birmingham Symphony as a good English mainstream orchestra. This country's particular strength lies in its period orchestras though, if you ask me.
The Berliner and Wiener Philharmoniker are in a league of their own, but when it comes to baroque recordings, just give me Tafelmusik, the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra or the Academy of Ancient Music any moment.
Mainstream orchestras that I've come to appreciate in live performances over the years: the Philharmonia and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe.
On a final note: it does my Dutch heart good to see David Dow proclaim the Concertgebouw Orkest the finest orchestra today, and to see acclaim for Haitink's Mahler recordings - Harnoncourt's Dvorak recordings are second to none as well.
Post Edited (2004-03-02 20:59)
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Author: ALOMARvelous12
Date: 2004-03-02 22:58
Yep, the Mahlers (especially 8th) of Haitnik and Concertgebouw are right up there on my list as well.
And I failed in my original post to give deserving mention to Neville Marriner and his St. Martin-in-the-Fields.
Speaking of Marriner, I'm reminded of Andrew Marriner's London Symphony. A fine ensemble they are, but I haven't heard them at all except for this one CD I own. Its one of those 3 dollar budget disc from this Canadien label that I got, oh 5 years ago or so. Through my ears, the playing seems excellent, and the disc is still I favorte that is regularly played. The LSO plays Beethoven Symphonies 1 and 3, under Josef Krips, whom I don't recognize. And since i've lost the original disc case, i don't have its cover/program notes/ISBN. Therefore, I've got no idea when this was made, though from listening to the tone of the exposed first clarinet passages, I can kind of guess it was from the Gervase de Peyer times.
The St. Petersburg FSO under Evgeny Vovkushansky is another team I know nothing about, but enjoy listening to them on old budget CD's (I know I have at least 2, one is Tchaikovsky's 1812, sym 6, marche slave and the other is beethoven's 9th) anyway. Heck, I don't even know what FSO stands for. I think Festival Studio Orchestra or Festival Symphony Orchestra or something.
Just goes to show you don't need to obsess over what/who you're listening to, you can always find somthing enjoyable whenever you listen to performance of a great classical work by accomplished musicians if you just listen with an open mind.
Same thing with clarinets. We're too often throwing critism at performers, attacking them about their tone, vibrato, interpretations, etc. Sometimes, it seems as if we go listen to pro clarinets just so that we can find something to pick on. Why not just sit back with an open mind and let the musicians do their thing, and just appreciate the incredibally beautiful phenom that music is...
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Author: Keil
Date: 2004-03-02 23:04
my 2 cents whatever it's worth:
Boston Symphony/Haitink, such a beautiful wind sound. They played with such tenderness and colour. I believe it was Doriot;flute, Harold;clarinet,Alfred;oboe,Sherman;bassoon,Kavolosky(sp?);horn.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-03-03 00:32
Unfortunately the Pittsburgh SO has not recorded much with Mariss Jansons.
Tune in if your local NPR stations carries their broadcasts from Heinz Hall (with or without the free Pickle pin)
Other faves:
Concertgebouw
Suisse Romande
Bamberg
Stattescappelle Dresden
pardon the spelling
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Author: its the Lencho
Date: 2004-03-03 03:22
Sadly, little of Arthur Nikisch's legacy remains on this earth.
But the few recordings that do remain give testamony that he was one of the most intimate conductors this world has seen.
The rest of my votes would fall in with these:
Toscanini - NBC Radio Orchestra
Beecham - Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Marriner - Academy of Saint Martin-in-the-Fields
Britten - English Chamber Orchestra
Bernstein - New York Philharmonic
Furtwangler - Berlin Philharmonic
Kleiber - Vienna Philharmonic
Take a listen!
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Author: atl4413
Date: 2004-03-03 15:24
I am currently, right now, enjoying St. Martin-in-the-fields/Sir Neville Marriner.
And, because I am loyal and live in Atlanta, I have to say the ASO.....but really, they hold a very dear place in my heart.
In high school, my best friend's mother and father were both in the ASO and I never understood why she didn't want to go to their practices on the weekends (passing up a free concert? NEVER!)........I guess she heard it so much around the house, that she got sick of it. The Mall was more exciting for her.
Is that an oxymoron - sick of music? I cannot imagine.
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Author: clarinet87
Date: 2004-03-05 02:33
My favorite orchestras:
Richmond Symphony Orchestra
Richmond Philharmonic Orchestra
Richmond Symphony Youth Orchestra
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