 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-03-01 09:24
Hey guys. I'm having a problem recently with mold growing on most of my reeds. I used to store them in a long narrow tupperware container, and I would put them in sideways on bluetac. I would also have a sponge in there which I have soaked in salty water, and got as much moisture of of it as I can... After doing this method for ages, I decided to go back to storing them in a similar container but in the LaVoz 4 reed holders. I have recently had mold growing on them, in both storage methods. I don't recall having this problem before and Can't work out why it is occurring as the sponge is dry... Admittedly we have had some weird weather here recently around the 40 degrees celcius mark, but its been alot cooler over the past week and its still happening...
Any thoughts? THanks!
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-01 12:08
Find a cool, dry place.
Perhaps your refridgerator will provide some respite from the Humidity?
(I remember a picture of some poor slob answering a Coober Pedy telly call, and the old dialer was kept in the fridge!)
40 is rather at the extreme of temperature and humity for storage of most natural fibers, Armondo Dontaxe included.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-03-01 14:29
Nick,
As SB said, the solution is storing reeds in a dry environment. You could try putting a bag of silica gel in your reed storage container to prevent the mold growth.
To recover moldy reeds: bleach will kill the mold but it may damage your reeds. Start with a 10% solution on an "infected" reed, then try higher bleach concentrations if necessary. Be sure to wash off the bleach completely before trying the reeds.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-03-01 15:06
Hans , I agree [in general] but I'd suggest using hydrogen peroxide H2O2, available as 3-5% solution in water, rather than bleach, 6% sodium hypochlorite, labelled as Corrosive, quite "caustic". Both release nascent oxygen to destroy organic matter, and the "waste" product from peroxide is only water. I believe that the "Reed-Life" , available from The Doctor, is H2O2 with a humectant, prob. glycerine, in water, and while more costly, is handy and easy to use. Am I reasonably correct, Omar?, dont want to invade your territory! Yes, IMHO, keep your reeds dry, years ago I ruined a number of oboe reeds keeping them moist. I'd also suggest that mold formation is a function of the "absolute humidity", that is, the actual concentration of water in air [grains per cu ft, per ex.] rather than "relative humidity" which is a considerable function of temperature. P E, 100% RH on a cool day isn't near as uncomfortable [to us] as on a warmer day,with a much higher water conc. in air! Just my simple-minded P-Chem thots on the air/water system. If wrong, please correct! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: DougR
Date: 2004-03-02 00:43
Hi, Nick.
Your post got me searching the B'Board for "Reed moisture" and "reed storage" and I learned a lot about reed storage. (I imagine you've read those posts too, because your method of storage exactly mimics one mentioned in one of those threads, right down to using 'bluetack', whatever THAT might be.)
As to the "why" it's happening, which seems to be your question, obviously your introducing the reed-guard into the closed container provided a 'tipping point' for the mold spores to dig in & take hold. You say it happens with "both methods," but I'm unclear from that whether it's the same batch of reeds being transferred from one storage method to another (which would mean the mold would travel WITH the reeds)? Or do you mean that now, for some reason, your old pre-reed-guard method of storage is suddenly growing mold on fresh reeds ??
It seems to me that mold formation has something to do not only with relative/absolute humidity levels, but also with air circulation, or lack thereof. Storing reeds in a sealed container sounds (to ME, though it's clearly worked for you until now) like an invitation for mold.
And, I would think, your sponge would need periodic bleaching-out to get rid of mold too, right? As would the reed-guard, which could theoretically carry spores too, right?
What we need here is some science. (and not from me, I'm afraid.)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-03-02 13:03
Disclaimer - I sell ReedLife
Here in Atlanta we have a wonderful combination of heat and humidity for about 6 months out of the year and so I have made a study of mold growth for my own self protection. Mold and mildew spores are everywhere in the environment and they only take a warm temperature, adequate moisture content, and an energy - food - source to grow vigorously in the vegetative form. Reeds in a warm damp environment with the skin cells imbedded from your lips offer an ideal place for mold to grow. You can inhibit mold growth by removing any one of the essential elements - temperature, humidity, or food source.
Temperature in the ambient environment is hard to control all the time but refrigeration will retard mold growth. Keeping the Relative Humidity {RH} below 50% will inhibit growth, keeping the reeds clean and free of organic matter will also help.
IMHO the best ways are the latter two methods. Reeds initially dried and then stored in an air tight container containing a desiccant such as silica gel [be careful not to get dust from disposable packets on the reeds because it is a neurotoxin] will keep the RH well below 50% {a method of measuring RH such as a meter or chemical strip is helpful to be sure the moisture content in the container is below 50%}.
Removing the food source by cleaning and sanitizing with drug store hydrogen peroxide will remove the food source. In my opinion chlorine bleach is too harsh on reeds even in the 2-10% range. Repeated treatment with plain hydrogen peroxide will oxidize the natural carbohydrate and oils which aid in rehydration and moisture retention {IMHO needed for reed longevity} however. ReedLife, one of several products in the marketplace, contains a proprietary blend of humectants which replentish and protect the carbohydrate and natural oils in the reed. This is a proven formulation and not just hydrogen peroxide and glycerin - do not be fooled. As with any formulation used on your instrument or reeds it should be tested by the player for use in their own playing and practice regime.
My own experience is that low humidity and clean reeds will not grow mold or mildew in the Atlanta environment.
The Doctor
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-03-02 16:12
Hans, I also was a bit surprised at Doc's mention of neurotoxin possibilities of silica gel, having used it in chem labs etc [as an adsorbent, catalyst support etc] and having small containers of it in pill bottles for dehydration purposes. I'd always thot of it's hazard [had some "safety enginering" experience] being to lungs, not nerves, such as from"sand" [SiO2 +] storms and with other "earths", a component toward "dust pneumonia". Whatever, folks, dont mess with Si gel dust! Do appreciate your reference to the MSDS Hans. TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-03-02 18:45
Disclaimer - I sell silica gel desiccant
The pure form of silica gel indeed is not neurotoxic but the cheap formulations used in disposable desiccant packs are contaminated in the chemical manufacture with acrylamide monomer which indeed has been shown to be neurotoxic and carcinogenic. When packets are completely sealed there is no danger of dust. The only safe silica gel desiccants are those produced by a more expensive process and are sold in little plastic canisters with dust seals that are intended for use to keep pharmacy drugs dry in the bottles. You can ask your druggist to save these little canisters for you when they throw away the bulk bottles which contained drugs.
The Doctor
Post Edited (2004-03-02 18:48)
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2004-03-19 20:01
I hope the desicant tubes in the Vandoren reed cases are safe. I've been using them for a while now with no ill effect. As far as I can tell this silica gel is in the granulated beaded form (not a powder). So it should be ok.
SteveThe Doctor wrote:
> Disclaimer - I sell silica gel desiccant
> The pure form of silica gel indeed is not neurotoxic but the
> cheap formulations used in disposable desiccant packs are
> contaminated in the chemical manufacture with acrylamide
> monomer which indeed has been shown to be neurotoxic and
> carcinogenic. When packets are completely sealed there is no
> danger of dust. The only safe silica gel desiccants are those
> produced by a more expensive process and are sold in little
> plastic canisters with dust seals that are intended for use to
> keep pharmacy drugs dry in the bottles. You can ask your
> druggist to save these little canisters for you when they throw
> away the bulk bottles which contained drugs.
> The Doctor
>
>
> Post Edited (2004-03-02 18:48)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-19 21:35
...and don't forget that a container that stored moldy reeds will "reinfect" new ones if you don't sanitize it. It is conceivable that the reed container you switched to had mold spores in it before you put the reeds in it. As they always say with food containers...."wash before first use"....
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-03-19 22:27
I'll repeat my advice which solved my problem long ago, and mold has never returned. I use a 35 mm film canister to hold my reed soaking water, and add a few drops of either disinfecting mouthwash, or a few drops of hydrogen peroxide to the water whenever I change the water. This kills all kinds of molds and infections right from the beginning. Then the reeds are dried reasonably well after use before being stored. This is an inexpensive and uncomplicated way of handling these problems.
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Author: Alyra
Date: 2004-03-20 08:36
Feel free to walk into a photolab and ask for film canister containers. We have no way to get rid of them (we don't recycle them, I work fo ra major chain and we don't so no idea why we don't) - and we lovvve to give them to people for all kinds of odd things :D
I've not had this problem in Adelaide Nick. Where are you?
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Author: BSL
Date: 2004-03-20 14:06
When a little mold grows on my reeds, I simply dip my finger in a little water and spread it over the reed. The mold works in your favor that way by closing the pores in the reed, keeping them from waterlogging. This is something Giggliotti would do, and teach his students as well. (It probably originated from Bonade.)
It may sound gross, but it works. And I have yet to get ill or see anyone else from doing this.
If the mold were allowed to severely encompass the reed, I'd probably have my reservations. It could probably be rinsed off and still be fine.
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Author: Taxijazz
Date: 2004-03-20 14:17
Old Grand Dad 114 proof bourbon worked for me, and I saved every reed I've used for the last 10 years with hardy any mold problems, but I'm lucky to be in good climate. In any event it's damn good whiskey.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-20 14:57
"The mold works in your favor that way by closing the pores in the reed"
About the only place molds "works in your favor" that I know of is cheese and penicillin. I'm sure there are others, but personally, I can't imagine mold being beneficial on reeds or in them. But,hey,what do I know...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-03-20 15:04
BSL said:
> The mold works in your favor that way by closing the pores
> in the reed, keeping them from waterlogging.
> This is something Giggliotti would do, and teach
> his students as well. (It probably originated from Bonade.)
Bonade would seal his reeds by using either dust from a shelf, cigarette ashes from his ashtray, or rubbing his finger on the underside of his shoe...GBK
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