 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: billryan
Date: 2004-02-28 20:42
Hey, I'm planning on having my R-13 overhauled this summer. Couple of questions. 1, What should I expect to pay for a complete overhaul (pads/corks) 2. Silver replate job 3. Nicks and marks on the wood removed 4. What else do they do? Who would be the best to send it to? Is there a best of repair guys list? Who do you trust with your clarinet? Am I missing something? I know this will cost, just don't want to give it to the wrong guy. Thank you for your help.
Bill
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-02-28 20:56
A "normal" complete overhaul should include general cleaning, including the keys, new pads, corks, regulation, bore oiling, lubrication, tightening of socket rings (if needed) and perhaps a few other things I forgot. I paid $180 for that recently. I don't know how typical that is. It might or might not include removing slight imperfections in the wood but it would certainly not include replating of keys. That's a different ball game.
I chose a technician within driving distance. If you have to send it somewhere, there'll be additional costs and risks, of course.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Henry
(By the way, I was very happy with the quality of the work. If you happen to live in New Jersey, please e-mail me and I could get you my tech's contact info.)
Post Edited (2004-02-28 21:09)
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-02-28 21:00
Bill,
This BB's sponsors include repair and overhaul specialists. You could do a search to verify this, but I have seen only very favorable comments from those who have done business with them.
If I didn't have a good specialist nearby to keep my clarinet in top condition, that is who I would contact.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-02-28 21:27
Many of the items mentioned so far are cosmetic.
However one of the biggest items in a superior overhaul is not cosmetic at all. It is attending to a diverse range of mechanical issues that need attention. These are fundamental to a good 'feel' in the action, and to long-term reliability. They are the foundation infrastructure that keeps an instrument playing well. They are often overlooked by players because to elaborate on what they can include, would be make a very long list indeed. Even to explain some of them to the lay person can be a challenge. they are in the arsenal of a true professional repair technician.
The good technician is the one who attends thoroughly to this aspect of servicing.
Probably the only way to compare or evaluate technicians in this area is to check out their reputation for impressive and reliable work with WELL-established local accomplished players and teachers.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-02-29 22:30
Personally, I wouldn't send my best horn to anyone. I'd find a good local technician, one I can communicate directly with, one that other players like and recommend, and visit that shop.
$180 (USDs) is about the average rate, though it varies somewhat by area, for a thorough overhaul these days in the U.S. That will NOT include plating keys. Nicks and marks can be discussed but usually, if they don't affect playability, are best left alone - unless you just love to spend lots of money for appearances sake.
As Gordon says, a good tech will take care of what's needed to bring your instrument into tip-top playing condition. A LOCAL one will also make adjustments to your individual needs if necessary -- with you there, while you wait.
If for whatever reason you must send it to someone, follow Hans' recommendation.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-02-29 23:41
ron b...I think you and I are in complete accord!
Gordon(NZ)...What's "cosmetic" about pad changes, cork changes, regulation, etc., etc.? What do YOU do in addition to all the things suggested above? And what would YOU charge for a complete overhaul according to YOUR standards? Just curious. (Don't take this the wrong way! If I lived in New Zealand, I would line up to be one of your customers but I don't think that, in this particular case, your post was very helpful.)
Henry
Post Edited (2004-03-01 00:43)
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-03-01 00:36
Nicks & marks (sanding & "adding stain-color") :
http://www.howardproducts.com/restora.htm
I know more than a few Woodwind Shops that use the Howard "Ebony" quite successfully. I have used it for quite some time & it works very, very well for me.
Caveat emptor & "don't try this @ home".
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-03-01 02:32
Henry, I was referring to the original post more than what you wrote.
The original post focused almost entirely on cosmetics.
However I did feel that your post left out perhaps 1/2 - 2/3 of the more demanding work (in terms of time) that I see in a typical overhaul.
I mention examples at risk of implying the list is short. It is not. It would have dozens of items, but here are a selection of them,
- Attend to play in pivots, and pivot screws that wobble.
- Level tone holes and make the edge blemish-free.
- Remounting insecure posts.
- Correcting alignment of pad cups with tone holes, such that evenly installed pads have a surface coincident with the plane of the tone hole edge.
- Remove hard calcium build-up that is constricting tone holes.
- Modify the geometry of linkages where there is less than ideal function, or excessive friction, as a result of the key geometry.
- Install a spring with a lower diameter/length ratio where there is a sluggish 'fee' from poor spring design, modifying the mounting as appropriate.
- Locate and deal with elusive leaks, such as around tone hole inserts beneath ring keys.
- Modify the shape of flat springs, for increased effective length, for a more 'free' action.
- cap tenons where there is too much wobble.
etc, etc, etc.
Every instrument presents its own set of problems.
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Author: sherrietanner
Date: 2004-03-01 10:05
Question, Is the Silver replate as good (or better) than original? Are there different levels of replating, can you pay more & receive better quality? Why are nicks, marks and other "cosmetic" issues not important? Ryan, did you by any chance use your horn for baseball practice? I had no idea that Juilliard even had a team!!!
Sherrie
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-01 12:06
Most small repair shops will send keys out for replating.
Anderson Plating is the largest serving the Band repair business in the United States, and they are accepting fewer small jobs.
Turn around time can approach six months!
The final layer of precious metal in a replating process is entirely dependent on the smooth progression from base metal to outer plated layers.
In short, preparation time determines the final product quality.
Time at the bench costs money.
If you don't have pitting, or rough surfaces, hand polishing with Flitz will give a bright finish that lasts some time.
I have used the Caswell kits to some success, but it takes a LONG time to get any appreciable results.
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Author: sherrietanner
Date: 2004-03-02 14:10
So your saying that depending on who is restoring your horn determines what the quality of the Silver plate is? Are there any parts not plated? reason? Are the final results (using top notch repair man), usually like showroom? What makes one repair concern better then another? Since I'm on a roll here, no one repiled to Bill's question of, "Is there a best of repair guys list?", Is there? Any females on it? Cheers,
Sherrie
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-03-02 15:52
I don't know personally of any Best Repair Guys list, Sherrie, at least not in my area. However, I do know three Repair Girls. If there were a Best Repair Techs list the girls would be toward the top of it 
- ron b -
Post Edited (2004-03-02 19:19)
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-03-02 16:04
Let's bear in mind that replating doesn't have to be silver, it can be any other plating material (most often nickel but gold is an option too). We often request replate in silver over NICKEL. We also have gone silver over silver & nickel over silver, etc. Gold is more expensive.
Anderson of IN gives no warranty (unless its real shoddy plating that starts coming apart). (Some) Techs who offer replating services WILL GUARANTY their work. This is important. You should also ask about "incidental costs" like repadding! Many times the former is offered while the latter is NOT. Time is probably the most significant element in the latter. Quick failure of the replated metals gets "free pass" while failure a year later has some "incidental" cost associated with the warranty. Acidic hands are deadly!
What gets replated is up to the repair tech & the customer. If you say keys, you will get JUST keys. If you request the WHOLE enchilada, you probably will get just. The additional replated parts are not significant to the cost of replating. However, pulling the posts & other hardware & pulling springs & reinstallation is time consuming & can be problematic to an extent.
Of course, the LATTER (replating everything) can be viewed as an opportunity, too.
NAPBIRT has a repair forum on DELPHI.
best,
mw
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Author: billryan
Date: 2004-03-02 18:17
Hey, So what should a complete overhaul by a master repairman cost. I want the "WHOLE enchilada". I have some marks (not deep) and want it to be as good or better than the day I bought it (well my parents). Who is the go to guy? Who is the best in the land? Sherrie, I didn't use my precious horn as a "baseball bat", that's ridiculous. I sometimes use it for personal defense, hey this is the big apple! Bye,
Bill
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-03-02 18:41
As I told you above, $180 would be reasonable. I don't know what you mean by the WHOLE enchilada! Of course, you could always have it "Brannenized" for at least double the amount. That is, if they would take you! (And it wouldn't include replating of the keys!)
Henry
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-03-02 19:23
I think "best" would be extremely difficult to pin down. Have you considered how long you can be without the instrument? Would 6 months be too long? Replating can take quite a while . . . depending. Also, some of the top guys have a good waiting list unless you are a household name in the clarinet world.
Do you know what YOU want in an overhaul? Kind of pads? Oil immersion? Can you travel to the technician for final adjustments? Do you want tone holes adjusted for intonation? Once you decide what YOU want, it might be easier to get the list narrowed down.
For example: If you want oil immersion, a lot of great technicians don't do that - so they are off the list. There are relatively few that will adjust undercutting, so that narrows it down also. Some may not care to be involved in a replating effort - there goes some more. I think you get my point.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-03-02 22:54
MW wrote "NAPBIRT has a repair forum on DELPHI."
It is not NAPBIRT's, although there are many NAPBIRT members. I am there, but not a NAPBIRT member.
The forum is restricted to professional repairers.
Post Edited (2004-03-02 22:56)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-03-02 22:59
In addition to the list that Fred gave, some repairers who offer the gamut of cosmetic items may well do an inferior job of the mechanical stuff that REALLY matters.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-03-02 23:14
I believe the consensus view to be that a "significant" error was made when the Forum was begun - certainly I don't subscribe to this line of thinking. As to form, no it's not sponsored or owned by Napbirt - as to substance - I believe it is. Not argumentative, but realistic. I think the Forum's Moderator (acting "Sysop" or whatever) is a wonderful & brave human being or some of us would not be there. mw
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