 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-02-18 14:20
i know i could ask my teacher next week but i though maybe you guys could give a quick answer
ok, so i'm about 6 mo. into my lessons now...i've come across some trill (tr) markings in some music i've tried to read outside of my assigned material...i know this is an easy one, but i couldn't seem to find a good answer on the internet...
for instance, i read a D dotted quarter note that has a "tr" marked above it...so i should play two notes rapidly for a 1 1/2 count? but i don't know which 2 notes to play (though i'm pretty sure D is one of them )
thanks for any help...
kevin
oh and if its not terribly dificult to explain...how do you read the sideways s marking? i think its called an "arpegio" mark..
Post Edited (2004-02-18 14:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: matilda
Date: 2004-02-18 14:24
play the note above the marked one (D) but make sure you're in the right key. e.g if you're playing in G major, your D trill will be from d to e, starting on d. but if the trill was marked above an e then you would trill e to f# as there is no f nat. in g major. sometimes there will be extra markings above the trill such as a sharp, natural or flat if the other note of the trill is not as in the key you are playing. hope this helps, its kinda difficult to explain without the stave!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-02-18 14:28
Play the note plus the next higher note according to the key signature, i.e. in C major your trill would be D to E, or in Bb major you trill would be D to Eb.
If you're supposed to trill to an accidental, the trill will be marked "Tr b" or "Tr #," which means trill up to the next higher flatted or sharped note.o
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: matilda
Date: 2004-02-18 14:29
oh, just read the bit about the 'sideways s'. i think youre talking about a 'turn'. its easiest to explain by example - if the turn is above a g in c major then play c dcbc, if above D in A major then play d edc#d etc - turning around the note that it is marked on. again, difficult to explain with out actual music!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-02-18 15:02
my, my, you guys are fast...thank so much.
i think i understand...i just need to be sure to play in the right key, unless otherwise noted.
ahhh...the notes in the "turn" seem to form an "s" shape, how logical!
thanks again,
kev
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-02-18 15:14
I learned that you turn in the direction of the S sign, so take note of which direction it lays. If it's an S laying on its side and NOT reversed, play DOWN up DOWN. If it's on its side AND reversed, play UP down UP.
(post edited after realizing my first attempt gave wrong information)
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2004-02-18 15:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-02-18 16:29
And if the turn is above the note itself, you actually start from the note above (then note, note-below, note) eg turn above a C = DCBC.
But if the turn is between two printed notes, you play the note before the sign as it is, then note-above, note, note-below, note, before you go onto the next printed note. The time needed for the turn is taken out of the value of the first printed note, so that you arrive on the second note at the correct time.
This is much more easily demonstrated than explained, as others have said!
Joanna Brown
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: katchow
Date: 2004-02-18 17:47
yeah, i can see where some of this might be a little confusing...i think i'm w/ you so far...at least enough till i get a chance to go over it with my instructor...
thanks again everybody
kev
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2004-02-18 18:50
is not the "turn" also known as "appogiatura?" Hence the confustion with "arpeggio."
In some cases, you start the trill on the written note; in others (as much of Mozart) you start on the note above.
For now (only 6 months old!) you might want to practice trills as sixteenth notes - until you have a chance to go over them with your teacher.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-18 19:35
Quote:
In some cases, you start the trill on the written note; in others (as much of Mozart) you start on the note above. As I understand it, it depends on how the note is resolving. For instance, if the trilled note is approached from above and resolving down (ie. E, trill D, C), it sounds nicer to me to start on the note above, in this case E, and trill downwards. If it's approached from below and resolves upwards (ie. C, trill D, E), it sounds nice to start it on the D and trill upwards. More preference though than an absolute rule.
Bet you thought trilling would be a "here's how you do it" situation . . . there's so much that can go into embellashing a piece such as this trills, mordents, turns, grace notes, etc. etc. And half of them is "does it sound nicer this way, or that way . . ."
Alexi
[edit] PS - Keep in mind that sometimes for slower pieces or sections, it may sound better to start the trill slowly and accelerate a bit if it's over a longer note (whole note, etc) than to just blaze away for four or more beats.
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2004-02-18 20:01)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-02-18 20:03
Larryb - a turn isn't the same as an appoggiatura. An appoggiatura's a 'leaning note' (written as a very small quaver before the main note) and takes half the value of the main note, or two-thirds if it's a dotted note. Not to be confused with an acciaccatura (written as a very small quaver with a line through the stem and tail) which is played quickly before the main note, either on or off the beat depending on the period of the music you're playing..........
Joanna Brown
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2004-02-18 20:36
Mordants:
The sideways s marking is call a mordent if it's got a line disecting it it's called an inverted mordant. The primary note followed by a semitone below [or above] (unless indicated by an small accidental) and then the primary note ...
Trills:
General rule is Romantic or later trills begin ON THE NOTE, classical and before (especially Bach, Haydn, Mozart) trills begin ON THE NOTE ABOVE.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-02-18 20:39)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-02-18 21:41
diz - here in England a mordent is denoted by a little sort of up-and-down zigzag over the note (with or without the line dissecting it, according to whether it's inverted or not). The sideways 's' is a turn. I thought it was the same everywhere, but perhaps not!
This discussion's getting interesting - but it's time for bed for me. Goodnight!
Joanna Brown
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2004-02-18 21:45
The sideways "S" is a turn. The notes follow the direction of the humps. For example, if the turn is on the note "C" and the first hump goes up, play "c d c b c". If the first hump goes down, play "c b c d c".
There are often different forms of notation that have the same meaning.
It would be a good idea to get a good music dictionary.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2004-02-18 21:49
I realise this is a TURN of course, I miss-interpreted the vague reference to side ways S. I do know the difference between a turn (inverted or otherwise) and mordants (inverted or otherwise).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-02-18 22:54
I believe the Italian term for the turn (sideways S) is gruppo or gruppetto (take your choice).
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-18 23:20
Quote:
General rule is Romantic or later trills begin ON THE NOTE, classical and before (especially Bach, Haydn, Mozart) trills begin ON THE NOTE ABOVE. Interesting . . . looks like I stand corrected. I always thought it was whichever way it was resolving.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2004-02-18 23:33
Dr. William Lovelock published a wonderful small book called Ornaments and Abbreviations for the Examination Student ... Oxford University Press. Also, Groves' article on Ornaments is very concise... worth reading if you want an microscopic analysis.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
