 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SomethingCopland
Date: 2004-02-10 14:36
Hey Everyone,
I'm wondering if anyone knows about how many clarinet prodigies, ages 0--26 are out there in the world at this time. I know this is probably the most stupid question ever posted of the 131,000 posts so far, but I want to know. I know of three alone right now. One is Julian Bliss, and the other two are a French-American kid and some Chinese kid. The Chinese kid could play flight of the bumble bee circular breathing and all, up tempo, when he was 12. The French-American kid is somehow better than the next Stanley Drucker, maybe some of you have heard of him, Danny Goldman. He's not a prodigy, but he's 17, and he can not only play anything, he can sightread ANYTHING. He sightread Ravel woodwind quintet perfectly the first time. He has technique up the ying yang, can play a little jazz and has fun sightreading violin sonatas and concertos(he'll transpose them for you if you want to here the piece in concert key). Anyway, enough. If any of you have answers, I'd like to see them!
Thanks,
GMDC
Stanley, Sydney, Russ, Michelle, David, Deborah, Chuck, Jon, Ricardo, Marc, Sabine, Elsa, Laura, John, Larry, Robert, Paul---They all know Copland.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-10 15:02
See, I don't know if I'd consider Juliann Bliss a prodigy. Sure the kid is great, but he was trained to be so from the age of four. I'm sure that if my parents gave me weekly private lessons (or twice a week? I can't remember how often) from a great player, was given a set of Peter Eaton Internationals at age seven, and had the opportunity to study weekly with Sabine Meyer I'd be pretty good too.
I'm not trying to take credit away from his playing or determination, but in my eyes, a prodigy is a person that initially learns the instrument themselves, through feel and sound and by ear and does it well. I don't consider careful coaching and fourteen hour days filled with studying and practice a 'prodigy' but just a very hard worker.
Unfortunately I can't think of any people that I would consider to be 'prodigies' since I don't know many players' backgrounds. Although I did hear of one Englishman who started clarinet at sixteen and was playing clarinet professionally by seventeen (although he too had an older brother clarinetist that helped him along the way). That to me is more of a 'prodigy'.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-10 16:00
If we accept your definitions, Alexi, then Mozart wasn't a prodigy, just a very hard worker.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-02-10 16:42
Sorry, Alexi, but I too must take issue with you....I have three daughters, ages 7, 5, and 2, and I guarantee that even if I had tried to start the two older ones playing clarinet at age 4, with the finest equipment, the finest teachers, etc., they would not have had anywhere near the talent, the concentration, the desire, nor the aptitude to succeed the way Julian Bliss has. Players such as Bliss certainly meet my definition of "prodigy".
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2004-02-10 17:02
If there were a magic dust for clarinet playing wouldn't we all go buy it? Nobody gets anywhere without hard work. Did the greats just pick the instrument up or did they bust their butts in the practice room and have demanding teachers? Chances are, the latter is correct. We have all picked an instrument up for the first time. Its what you do to get to the next step that makes you.
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Author: SomethingCopland
Date: 2004-02-10 17:25
Hello All
I know it is early yet for this post, or maybe late, depending upon how long it takes for it to die, but I'm wondering if anyone has an idea about how many. I'd guess that there are 20 on the earth, judging that I know of 3, but maybe I'm wrong. Tell me!
Thanks
GMDC
Stanley, Sydney, Russ, Michelle, David, Deborah, Chuck, Jon, Ricardo, Marc, Sabine, Elsa, Laura, John, Larry, Robert, Paul---They all know Copland.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-10 17:36
It would be interesting to know how many famous clarinettists are self-taught.
I know of one.
Step forward, Mr Acker Bilk.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-02-10 18:46
(Brandon) >> Nobody gets anywhere without hard work. Did the greats just pick the instrument up or did they bust their butts in the practice room and have demanding teachers? <<
Good point, that. Maybe somewhere someone just played and played and played and got great, but we haven't heard of that player. However great they get, there will be something basic missing.
You can't collect your own dues, and you can't kick your own butt. Unless it's done by someone more advanced and accomplished than you, you do not pass Go and do not collect $200 even if you can play the paint off the walls.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-10 18:50
I don't think I said that a prodigy never worked hard. I just feel that a prodigy has an extra sense of what to do and how to do it, whereas I don't consider those that have formal training and are "groomed" by professionals to be prodigies. Just hard workers with expert guidance.
I stick by my definition and want to clarify that I don't think I said that prodigies don't work hard or desire to do well. I just don't consider someone that has weekly lessons from a master in addition there studies in the "prodigy" level, whereas someone else who fits all the criteria as well (meaning hard work, excellent technique and sound, long days) but is self-taught is what I would consider a prodigy.
Dave,
So since I have a desire to learn, if I was given eight years of professional weekly training from world re-known masters of the clarinet and top-notch equipment as well as tons of support from my family and friends, does that mean that if I improve significantly in those eight years to a professional level that I am a clarinet prodigy who just happened to start late due to lack of $$$$ and support? Or just that I worked hard to become better and had great resources at my fingertips?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-10 19:08
sfalexi:
You wrote "I just feel that a prodigy has an extra sense of what to do and how to do it"
I think we'd all agree. But I think Julian Bliss does indeed have "an extra sense of what to do and how to do it". As well as fine equipment and fine teaching and a huge amount of support and encouragement from his parents.
You seem to think that Julian has got where he is just because his parents threw money at the problem. You seem not to appreciate that it is unlikely that Sabine Meyer would have given him lessons if she had not believed he had immense natural talent.
If you take an ordinary 4 year old to a top-ranking concert pianist or violinist and ask for lessons, then it is highly likely that you will be told to go away and find an ordinary local teacher. If you take a 7-year old who has been learning for three years and has made stupendous progress, you may well get a different answer. The same is true in other fields; famous mathematicians do not generally want to teach in elementary schools, but show them a budding genius and they may well be happy to give some coaching.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-02-10 20:19
The difference between a prodigy and the other 99.9% of us mere mortals is that no matter how much hard work, dedication or hours spent practicing and learning our craft, we all (if we are lucky) "max out" or "hit the wall" as far as going any further. Is there predetermined termination point? (for example - like tonguing speed) Is it genetic? I don't know...
The prodigy does not have a finite point of learning and ability. His progess is seemingly unstopable.
The only thing that eventually does in the child prodigy is burnout.
That is where their mentor/teacher/parents are most important...GBK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-10 21:19
Good point GBK.
I was also about to throw in the mix about all the child prodigies from the past that would be good candidates for the "where are they now?" game. Of course some made it their lifelong goal to play music and continue to amaze us, but I bet a good amount of those prodigies also simply stopped going because they were tired of it.
Guess they crossed that fine line of being great and getting tired of it. Luckily for us, some people didn't hit that line until after they made an impact on the world (ie. Artie Shaw - who hasn't touched a clarinet in a many decades, but will still be known and remembered for many lifetimes)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2004-02-10 21:46
sfalexi said: "I don't consider those that have formal training and are "groomed" by professionals to be prodigies. Just hard workers with expert guidance."
Who DO you consider prodigious, then? Mendelssohn was one of the greatest child composers of the 19th century and usually the textbook example of a prodigy- with lots of help. I'm sure there were many children of the time who had the same training as Mendelssohn and were also hard workers, but they didn't turn out the same. He had something special.
I'd also worry a lot about anyone who was entirely self-taught from a very early age in anything as intense as music. They might develop very unique technique but I doubt it would be very healthy.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-10 22:01
Quote:
Who DO you consider prodigious, then? I don't know. I know I stated above artie shaw, but on retrospect, I don't really even think HE was a prodigy. Maybe I just don't believe in prodigies or can't think of any examples of people who were prodigies. Oh well. Regardless of the fact, let's name some people who are extremely talented as the original poster was hoping to find out . . .
Sarah Williamson? (I only know of her through browsing Eaton Clarinets player's section.)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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