 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-02-05 17:34
I want to play Bass Clarinet, after playing soprano all my life.
So I will look for opportunities to play them, mostly by visiting music stores, I suppose. It seems to me, I should buy some reputable mouthpiece before I even start playing around, so I will have a stable reference point. For that matter, I asked a woman in my band If I could play her Buffet, and she squirmed and indicated she was afraid of germs. She asked me to bring my own mouthpiece. Fair enough.
What is a good, average mouthpiece that theoretically will be a starting point on any number of student, pro, vintage, or new instruments?
Second question. How many register keys are standard on a bass clarinet? When it is mentioned in the ads, the student ones have one register key, and some of the pro horns say they have two. Is it the same issue in vintage horns, or is one more common? I will assume that with practice I will have control enough for a pro horn. Should I assume that I want two keys, or is this no big deal, outweighed by many other characteristics?
WT
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-02-05 18:15
Wayne,
Welcome to the world of the REAL clarinets!
1) There are just two kinds of mouthpieces (regardless of your skill level): Good, or Bad. Please do yourself a lifelong favor and buy yourself a good one right off the bat ---- some suggestions:
--Clark Fobes
--Walter Grabner
--Roger Garrett
--J&D Hite
--Charles Bay
Forget all the stock mass-produced mouthpieces --- although there are plenty of good Vandorens/Selmers out there, there are way too many bad ones. Unless a professional bass clarinet tries them for you and picks one out, how will you know whether a stock B45 (for example) is a winner or a dog?
2) All modern bass clarinets have a single register KEY for you to depress. The "single"-vs."double" discussion relates to the mechanism operated by that key-- the better basses have a "double automatic register vent" which operates a lower, large register vent from clarion "long" B through D#, then a linkage from the r.h. ring finder key goes up the stack to cause a second, higher-up, smaller vent (often on the neck) to open for clarion D# on up. Occasionally one finds a single-register-vent bass clarinet that DOESN'T have a stuffy, resistant, sharp lower clarion register, but it's a rare thing indeed. Double MANUAL register vents disappeared around the 1930s or so, I think, although some folks still use them because they prefer the simplicity and reliability of the mechanism and have learned to switch register KEYS with their thumb as they go up the clarion register.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-02-05 18:46
Thanks, David,
A very clear answer. I will call Walter Grabner or Clark Fobes or .... and buy one. I was leaning in that direction, but was tempted by a B45 also.
And I should have asked 'how many vents', not 'how many keys'. When I buy, I assume I will be open to used instruments. Can I assume, then, that pro horns of the last 50 years all have two vents?
WT
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-02-05 19:16
As usual, Dave S gives you VG info. Walter G posts frequently on www.bass-clarinet@yahoogroups.com and is also VG. My Selmer C* bass mp [quite a "standard"] is good, and others have had theirs refaced. Dave refaced a glass Pomarico for me VG, and I found another Pom #3, which I regard as my # 1's. With what bass experience I've had with student plastic/wood basses, anymore I'd go for the double register key [DRK] models. They are usually distinguished by the register key on the BC's neck. In my collection, I have an old Pedler and an old Conn both with DRK, which sure improves their lower clarion [and high clarion] response and tonality. Its a somewhat diff. world from the Bb horn! Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-02-05 19:16
Wayne,
All true pro bass clarinets do indeed have double automatic register vents nowadays --- Leblanc persists in selling "pro-priced" bass clarinets with single register vents (I believe all except their top-of-the-line Model 430 have single vents), but IMHO the Leblanc basses are inferior by design and generally don't play as well as the best Selmer, Buffet, and Yamaha basses (and the latest Amatis seem to be reasonably good and are worth a look, although they still have some improving to do.....). Good luck!
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Author: William
Date: 2004-02-05 21:28
Like you, I have played soprano clarinets all my life and just two years ago, decided to take up the bass as well. One thing that I did was select a good low C instrument. My choice was the Buffet Prestigue 1190-2, for what that is worth. But the "best" thing I did was visit Walter Grabner in Evanston, IL, and bought one of his mouthpieces, a customized Selmer C*. His mpc, for me, was like "instant bass clarinet" and made a world of difference in the entire range of my new bass. He also refaced my old VanDoren B45 and greatly improved its' performance as well. Take it from me (as well as others), a good mouthpiece is "everything" when playing the bass clarinet--and I think I got a good one from Walter.
Welcome--bass clarineting is sooooooo much fun (as you, too, will soon discover)
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2004-02-05 21:45
Hey, even the student/intermediate model basses have the (automatic) double register mechanism. My old hard rubber Evette (great for outdoors) has it, and so does the new plastic Vito played by stand mate in my community band. Not that I'm suggesting you get a student horn -- but know the technology is widely used.
Repeat this mantra -- get a good mouthpiece. And search for Ken Shaw's great discussions on what I call Big Reeds -- meaning reeds for basses & contraBs. They're a whole new world too.
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2004-02-05 21:56
Obviously, the second vent is important.....so why don't all basses have them? Can one extra mechanism add that much to the cost of a "student" horn?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-02-06 16:51
To answer FrankM's question, the mechanism for the double automatic vent is fairly complex and requires occasional adjustment, also it requires a long rod coming up from the middle of the bottom joint area up to the top of the upper joint, with the corresponding potential for damage. I suspect it's these considerations of fragility and reliability, more so than cost, that keep the mechanisms out of student bass clarinets. But I agree, all basses should have the double register vent. In my entire life I've only played ONE single-register vent bass clarinet (a customer's Leblanc Esprit) which played great despite its design --- I don't know why or how.
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Author: Topher
Date: 2004-02-06 17:39
As someone who has done some research on the design of the bass, as well as being a bass player, I'd like to clear up a common misconseption. Whenever someone looks at a student model, like the Selmer or Vito basses that are so popular, and sees that pressing the register key can open one of two holes, they assume that means it has a double register vent. Unfortunately, that's not true, as every bass made using the standard Boehm system has at least two keys controlled by the register key, a register vent and a key for middle Bb. The "double register" system actually has three keys, one for the middle Bb, and two for the register vents. As for mouthpieces, I just got lucky with a B45. Many major online musical instrument retailers will let you order multiple mouthpieces, and return all the ones you don't like for a small cleaning fee. Good luck and have fun!
Topher
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2004-02-06 17:48
Thanks for explaining about the register systems, Topher! Very interesting.
Can you comment at all on the Leblanc Esprit that Dave S. mentioned?
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2004-02-06 18:01
Interesting information...didn't some saxophones originally have manual double "octave" mechanism.ie: the player operated two keys for different parts of the higher range?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-02-06 18:02
Well said. Dave, I've owned and tried-out a number of Single R K wood basses [semi-pros, to me], and only one top-of-line Leblanc, which had just been pro-overhauled by Wichita Band, played the lower clarion notes as well as my Selmer 33!! I'm sure my Pomarico mps [fairly wide tip] help a lot also. Sorry to disagree, C H, but aren't you confusing the usual larger pad for a good "pinch" Bb, which is operated [yes] by the register "touch" but closed by the left thumb, with a "register" function it does not perform. The DRK register-vent [speaker] tone holes [TWO] must be small, and as I said before, the usual distinguishing feature is the small key on the bottom of the neck, operated by linkage ACROSS the UJ to the neck. As Dave said, its another potential adjustment problem!!, but well worth it IMHO. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-02-06 18:33
FrankM,
Yes, like Dave mentions for bass clarinets, saxes also once had manual register keys. Interestingly, the Steve Goodson Unison saxes, which are probably pretty good, have three register vents, operated by one key of course. And more interesting, in the US, oboeists don't care for a fully automatic register key. I think they are up to three, or is it four, vents, operated somewhat manually.
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Author: Topher
Date: 2004-02-07 17:59
C. Hogue,
I've played only one Espirit, and as I recall it had a standard single register vent with a Bb vent. I do recall it playing very well in tune for a single vent system, but I think that can just be credited to excellent craftsmanship.
Post Edited (2004-02-07 18:02)
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Author: musica
Date: 2004-02-07 22:38
I'm thinking of purchasing a Conn Bass clarinet serial #195759L with a double
octave mechanism. Does anyone have any info on the history of CONN Bass
clarinets and the age of this instrument? Thanks.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-02-07 23:32
Musica, I have a ?1940s? Conn wood bass, to low E ONLY, fairly good, value ?$3-400?, yes, reg key on neck. More info if you wish. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: glin
Date: 2004-02-08 00:06
Wayne,
Dave S. tweaked my Leblanc Esprit and refaced a JD Hite mpc and said the horn was a "keeper". I suspect the Esprit he mentions is the one I own
IMHO, if you are going to be clarineting for recreation on a part time basis, and are one a buget, I would try a Vito. The price point is about $1200 for a new one.
David is right about the Leblancs; only the top model has the double register mechanism. If you want something in between a student and top pro horn-maybe the Esprit or the Buffet 1180 entry level pro horns would be ok. The Buffet has the double octave mechanism, I think.
If price is no object, I'd look into Buffet Prestige and Selmer37. These are the elite top models-look to pay $$$ depending on low Eb/or C. You will more for the models that go to low C than Eb. If you are going to do orchestral music, a low C model is recommended.
George Lin
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-02-08 04:36
Good advice! The "single" register key bass clarinets will sometimes have very extensive undercutting of the lower holes, bringing up the pitch of the lower end of the bottom register. This undercutting labor may be more expensive to produce in the factory than a "double" register key, a likely reason for not doing it much anymore. After all, a soprano clarinet works fine with only a "single" register key. My Lefebre bass clarinet from the 50s tunes well with only a "single" register key but the undercutting of the tone holes is significant.
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Author: musica
Date: 2004-02-08 14:16
With all the hype about Buffet,Leblanc, I'm thinking is it worth spending about
$500 for a Conn Bass? It doesn't have an Eb key but it plays well.
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