 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: KLee
Date: 2004-02-03 16:19
I came across tom's website and this really seems like a good system since tom has always been known to have great advice about preping reeds and I just wanted to know what you guys think of it, because I'm definitly buying it.
Post Edited (2004-02-03 16:23)
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Author: Rev. Avery
Date: 2004-02-03 18:34
I knew you'd get a mention on your "because I'm definitely buying it." 
I have the ATG and I love it. I was skeptical at first hearing about it, but when I saw Eddie Daniels' (and even a Clarinet instructor from my College) unsolicited comment on how great he thought it was I knew I was "definitely buying it."
Of course, I think I'm one of Tom's biggest fans around here. I have his Dupont acrylic mpc and love it. Plus, I have his TR-147 and simply loooove it.
So, I may be biased 
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-03 18:56
Rev,
You pretty much are a walking advertisement for Tom aren't you!?! Just like my college band instructor is for Gigliotti (Gigliotti mouthpiece, ligature, barrel, reeds, clarinet swab and former student)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2004-02-03 18:56)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-03 19:16
I know. Isn't that a bummer? I keep emailing leblanc telling them that I'll spread the word that they're the greatest if they'll JUST send me an opus but I still don't get any responses. I don't even want royalties every time I say it! Just a one-time payment of an opus! I mean, how could they pass up that deal?!![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ray
Date: 2004-02-03 19:26
Well, I don't want Rev. Avery to feel like the Lone Ranger.
While I haven't yet bought a TR147, I play four wonderful mouthpieces (including bass clarinet) refaced by Tom, I have his Educator's Guide to the Clarinet book, his fingerings book, and yes, the ATG system.
Right now I carry and try to rotate 12 soprano reeds and 6 bass clarinet reeds. (Its hard to keep track of that many.) Gonzales, Mozart, Grand Concert thick and thin, Vandoren, and Rigotti are all in there. With the ATG I have made all of them play excellently. They are not all exactly alike, but they are all the right resistance, they are all responsive, and I like the sound of all of them. You're probably thinking, well, this guy has remarkably low standards, that's all. To the contrary, I am somewhat of a perfectionist.
I have used the ATG system for nearly a year, and as I learn more and more about what I want from a reed and how to get it, it takes less and less time and my reeds are better and better.
Those of you who don't use the ATG probably don't believe that I can make a reed you threw away play excellently, but those of you who have it know its true. And, I can do it in less than two minutes. So can you.
Insert here the usual disclaimers. I am a friend and admirer of a talented, hard-working, curious and generous man, that's all.
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Author: Dan1937
Date: 2004-02-03 22:35
I've had the ATG system for a couple of months, and am still learning to use it, but I am very impressed with what it does for me so far. Reeds which I formerly would have put back in the box (or thrown away) are now tweaked, balanced and a part of my mormal rotation!
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2004-02-04 02:31
I have taken some of the worst looking reeds and playing reeds and made them work. That's not to say that every one is a perfect player but I can at least practice with them.
I am no expert just a returning hack.
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-04 13:34
Could I just sidle in quietly and ask a quick question here? I've read through the link Mark kindly provided, and the ATG system sounds good to my inexperienced eyes. I certainly don't mind paying for expertise, it's what keeps such experts around helping people!
However, my question is, would a beginner be looking at using something like this? I'm a latecomer to clarinets, and this whole notion of reeds is exceedingly frustrating to one who's used to picking up the instrument (in my case, previously the flute) and just playing it, with the quality of the sound that ensues being largely dependent on the quality of the player! (bearing in mind of course that really awful quality instruments do have an effect). Still, I love the sound of the clarinet, and my teacher is reportedly extremely pleased with my progress (although she may just be being kind ), so I persevere with these fiddly reeds. But would I, as a novice, really be looking at "working" my reeds just yet ... or just concentrating on getting the tone right with the reeds as they are? I'm experimenting with different reeds, and have some preferences already .. but I'm not yet experienced enough to really know when I have a bad reed (which adjustment may help) ... or whether I'm having an off-day myself!
Basically I'm trying to ask, is it worth a beginner's while getting involved in the whole reed-adjustment thing, or not yet ... ?
cheers
Helen
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2004-02-04 14:51
To Helen: Yes, I would recommend using the ATG system as a beginner. Even beginners deserve good reeds. It is easy to learn to use, it is very effective in its method, and will teach you a lot about how you make a good clarinet sound just by using the reed testing methods. (As a beginner, you may only be able to use the "side to side" test, but that is OK) Just don't get all caught up in the psycho reed thing...there are more important parts of learning to play.
I play in semi-pro orchestras and have had great results from Ridenour's system. Reeds I gave up on years ago have a new life, at least for a good practice reed. Reeds I thought were concert quality I now find can be greatly improved. I am a fan!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-02-04 14:59
johng wrote:
> Even beginners deserve good reeds.
Especially beginners deserve good reeds! Whether you use the ATG system or learn some basics from your teacher, getting a reed balanced & playable is something that is so important to a beginner that I don't think it can be overemphasized. When you're just starting out - or re-starting - you don't have the same references and tend to blame yourself since it just couldn't be the equipment ... After a few years things tend to go the opposite way ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) .
I don't teach, but occasionally some young student will come over to the house and tell me how much trouble they're having creating a note or squeaking. Most of the time a simple reed adjustment brings a smile to their face (once in a while it's a bad or chipped mouthpiece or a bent key, too ) .
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Author: Ray
Date: 2004-02-04 15:12
Helen, you sure have a way of asking the right questions.
I have strong opinions about reed finishing. I don't think any player at any level should play with a reed that is difficult to play well. Maybe, just maybe, its even more important for a beginner.
So the choice is to select good reeds and discard the remainder or to learn to make every reed a good or great player.
Sure, you aren't really sure what a good reed is like and a bad reed is like. And you're ready to blame your difficulties on yourself. That's generous. But, when you put on a reed and it blows easily, it sounds rich on the low notes, the high notes come easily and there is no airiness or fuzziness in your tone, I bet you notice! That's what a good reed is like. With a good reed, you can concentrate on making music, on learning to play, on enjoying the wonderful sounds you can make.
With a bad reed you get red in the face and sound fuzzy, you can't go over the register breaks easily, the high notes won't come unless you bite on the mouthpiece (Don't do it!) and you get frustrated with your troubles. Everything becomes more difficult to do and you react to that. If the reed is way too soft you sound reedy and thin and don't really sound like a clarinet.
You suggest just concentrating on getting the tone right with the reeds just as they are. You already know that you just can't do that with many or your reeds. You especially, as a beginner, should have the deck stacked in your favor. Your clarinet should have no leaks so it plays easily and your reeds should be fitted to your mouthpiece so that they blow easily and respond quickly.
There is a certain tendency for clarinetists to guard their secrets so they have an edge. I think that explains why there is so little good information about reed adjusting available. Its almost like the medieval guilds, where you had to apprentice for most of your short life in order to be admitted to the inner circle where some secrets would finally be revealed to you.
Tom Ridenour believes that your instrument should be as efficient as possible in helping you to make music. He has worked out a way for anyone to produce really good reeds. And he wants to share it. I believe that even as a beginner you will be able to make substantial improvements in your reeds and that you will benefit from it if you learn to adjust them.
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Author: Rev. Avery
Date: 2004-02-04 15:23
This has been fun reading
Tom explains very well how to use it on the DVD. I was nervous when I approached my first reed. I just knew I was going to do too much or not enough or that I wasted my money .... But, I did the first reed (which had been unplayable for me) in less than five minutes and it sounded great! I couldn't believe it. And all the reeds I've done since then have all been much improved over what they were.
Interestingly, I've found that the Gonzalez reeds have been very balanced right out of the box. I've just done minor adjusting to them. I recommend the Gonzalez reeds very highly too
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2004-02-04 15:40
This is one way to get started.
Another way would be to do a search of the web for "adjusting oboe reeds" and apply what you learn to adjusting the clarinet reed.
A single edge razor blade or reed knife is all you need.
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-05 07:51
Guys, your advice has been absolutely invaluable and I thank you all for taking the time to give it.
I'm convinced. I shall go get myself the Ridenour system, and shall become an avid fan of tweaking and adjusting ...
And Ray, you are absolutely right ... even I, in my beginner status, can tell - hear and feel - the difference between reeds; one does indeed blow freely, easily, the notes just seem to come effortlessly and, dare I say it, tunefully?! Whilst another just seems difficult to get anything out of at all (fortunately I don't squeak much, but some just seem HARD to blow), some notes purely unattainable, others just don't ring true. But ... I always think it's me, seriously I do ... that my control has slipped, that my inexperience is showing, that I'm obviously doing something "not quite right".
Hmmm. Time to start adjusting, methinks ... !
Again, thanks all of you, I really appreciate the advice.
cheers
Helen
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Author: larryb
Date: 2004-02-05 18:45
well, hank seems to have closed the loop on this discussion
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2004-02-05 21:46
Just to clear up some confusion--the ATG system as sold by Brook Mays comes with a simplified 15 minute "student grade" video tape-$39.99 plus S&H. If you want the full story complete with 46 page book and 50 minute DVD, you must order from Tom's website at $59.95 plus $8.50 S&H. The finishing kit is the same in both cases- the "professional grade" educational material supplied is the difference. All this from a direct conversation with Tom, himself.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-05 22:04
Hi,
Watch for the ATG on eBay as Tom has them for sale from time to time. That's where I got mine at a little cheaper price. I believe that Tom has since updated the DVD a little bit.
HRL
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-06 06:18
And my two cents (well, four if you count my other post) is to tell you that I found the DVD and booklet very informative. Not only on how to test and adjust reeds, but also the causes and types of reed problems and lots of other general info that I found worth paying the little extra for.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-02-06 11:24
Does the ATG also allow you to work a reed that is too stiff down a bit in strength?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-02-06 11:35
Fred,
Yes. That's one of the specific things that Tom shows on the video.
HRL
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2004-02-06 18:17
I, too, encourage people to get the version with the video. Some might be tempted to suggest Tom take some acting lessons, but he gets the point across just fine in the VCR version I got.
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