 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Mary C
Date: 1999-11-30 13:38
Hello. I am doing a research on Herouard 13-keyed clarinet as a part of the graduate introductory music research course. This clarinet was donated from someone to the school in several years ago, and it has been in my studio teacher's hand since then.
It has 13 metal keys, brown body (boxwood?) with white (ivory?) rims. It has a marking of "Herouard A Paris*" along with the logo.
Does anybody know anything about it? I would appreciate any kind of information about it.
Here are some specific questions if someone could answer them for me.
1) Langwill's index (1st ed.) says Herouard was the brothers who manufactured specially Woodwind in Paris, 1839-1878. Can someone name the brothers?
2) Was "Herouard" famous maker for the 13 keyed, or old clarinets? (at least among us??)
3) Were the 13 keyed clarinet popular in the United States?
4) How long were the 13 keyed clarinets actually played?
5) I heard there were various kinds of 13 keyed clarinet in the 19th-century, and they are not standarized. Could someone suggest the sources that describe the diversity of those VARIOUS 13 keyed clarinets?
Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-11-30 15:11
The best information re: your "oldie" I can think of will probably come from the posts to the Onelist Early Clarinet site which is devoted to pre-Boehm cl's. Likely Mark C can supply some info, and I'll look in my Rendall and Brymer books and add what I can. Luck, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-11-30 15:37
No info in the books, you might look [as I will} in Grove's Dict. of Music. I have in my "favorite places" a French site, http:// perso.club-internet,fr/cjsax/public/fclars.html which in their voluminous listing shows H as 1875 Paris. From all this I presume he was a little-known cl maker ! Luck!!, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-30 23:12
From The New Langwill Index:
Hérouard WWI fl La Couture 1760-?late 19c, fl Paris second half 19c.
Family workshop established 1760 at La Couture (according to an advertisement), probably by the 'maître-facteur' Thomas Hérouard (d 1799/1800), who married Marie Lemaitre, daughter of Aimée Hotteterre, sister to (16) Philippe and (17) Louis (see HOTTETERRE family), the last of the Hotteterre dynasty; the inventory taken at his death lists a stock of c1700 WWls, including 33 dozen 'flageolets ordinaires', 44 dozen 'flageolets communs', one and a half dozen each of oboe, clarinet etc; his son and successor Thomas died prematurely, thereby extinguishing this branch of the family; 1839 the workshop employed a workforce of 30-40; 'Hérouard frères' active 1835-1878; 'Hérouard père, ancienne mon. Hérouard frères' fl La Couture is reported in 1858; later also at Paris, Ezy. 1878 LAUBÉ-DRAUXIN became proprietor and successor. See also LENOUARD, THIBOUVILLE -HÉROUARD.
MARK:
[ a ] (sunburst) / HEROUARD /A PARIS (5-pointed ,star)
[ b ] (5-pointed star) / Herouard / A PARIS (in oval Cartouche
[ c ] HEROUARD / PERE / ET FILS (in oval cartouche)
[ d ] (sunburst) / HEROUARD / FRERES / A PARIS
[ e ] (5-pointed star) / Herouard (cursive) / FRERES (in oval cartouche)
[ f ] (5-pointed star) / herouard / freres (cursive) (in oval cartouche)
PATENT:
1835: flute head-joint.
EXHIBITION:
Paris 1839,1844,1900.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
DIZ 1.336. Pierre 1893, Manger 1912.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-01 18:42
I looked into the Grove's Dict, no listing under H, but Mark's Langw. mentioned an association with Thibouville. Under Thib. there is a mention of T - H and T-Buffet, which I judge to be business, not marriage. A Pierre Thib. was mentioned near the T-H reference. I have several "Albert-Muller" simple and more-keyed clars. so I have always assumed that there was less "standardization" in the 1850-1910 era than now, and many makers [some garage-types?]. Some non-converts to Boehm [as in New Orleans etc] still play the 13 key horns [and well!]. Aside from museums, books such as Baines, Rendall, Sachs etc will be your best source of info on a rather detailed subject, I believe. Luck, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mary C
Date: 1999-12-01 23:18
Thank you, Mr. Don and Mr. Mark,
Yes, I finally got access to New Langwill Index (newer edition) a few days ago as Mark scanned(?) the page for me.
The marking on this clarinet is the top one of the page, "Herouard a Paris" with five pointed star. Does this mean this clarinet could be manufactured in early 19c, not by Brothers?
Mr. Don, could you explain a little more about non-converts to Bahm (Albert?), and its relation to New Orleans? You mean people in New Orleans still play 13 key?
The key placement of this clarinet is exactly the same as one in the picture of Jack Brymer's book, fig 11, between page 20 and 21, except the top vent. The vent is on the back. Is this a "simple" or simplest 13 key type?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-12-01 23:59
Mary C wrote:
-------------------------------
Thank you, Mr. Don and Mr. Mark,
Yes, I finally got access to New Langwill Index (newer edition)
------
Newer than the 1993 edition??
------
a few days ago as Mark scanned(?) the page for me.
The marking on this clarinet is the top one of the page, "Herouard a Paris" with five pointed star. Does this mean this clarinet could be manufactured in early 19c, not by Brothers?
----------
Most probably; the logos are normally in chronological order in the Langwill.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-12-02 16:50
Mary C, Thanks for your courtesy re: Mr. , but for me and likely Mark, Mr refers to my/our fathers!! Re: "non-converts", maybe a poorly-chosen description, I recall Wily Humphries at Preservation Hall in N O playing old Dixieland jazz on ?13? key cl, pretty-dern well! Also I have talked with, and nearly sold one to a N O traditional cl'ist. I must say however, having personally heard and [by recordings]enjoyed old style Dixie, that the superiority of Boehm is evident, particularly in flat keys requiring fork and other fingerings for Bb and F. I'm sure others have greater familiarity with all this than I! I cant date the introduction of the back-located register vent [and tube], perhaps careful reading of Brymer and comments of others can do so. I have one or two of the "salt-spoon" variety and will look-at to see if I can add more. Fun, aint it? Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron
Date: 1999-12-03 07:37
Hi, Mary -
I know this won't answer your question but you may be interested to know that some people who are not from N.O. still play Albert system clarinets. I've read lots of pros and cons about the Albert system. I can't give anyone a definite reason for my preference but I've played (and know others who've played) Albert and Oehler system horns for many years.
Ron in Sacramento, CA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
