 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-01-27 02:17
Was searching for information on different clarinets and stumbled upon a very unique design. Check out these pictures. It's a one piece body (UJ, LJ, and barrel), except you supply the mouthpiece. The bell gets screwed on the bottom (as opposed to pushed on with cork). Also, there are two metal inserts for the barrel which sets it at two different lengths (for tuning purposes only I'm sure). And also a bit of an oddity, there's a thir fixed ring on the LH third finger. It doesn't serve a purpose except to make that finger feel like all the rest. Wow. I've never seen (or heard) something like this before in my life. Wonder how they play . . .
They also advertise a professional metal clarinet (which looks like an oddity to me as well).
http://www.orsi-wind-instruments.it/clarinets_list.htm Any comments?
Alexi
Also a Disclaimer . . . I have no financial or otherwise interest in this company nor was I persuaded to mention them. I just saw the manufacturer mentioned in a previous thread, had never heard of them so I decided to look them up and this is what I found.
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2004-01-27 02:19)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-01-27 04:28
What I don't understand is that if this is a one-piece body, how come the G# key isn'tplaced on the front where it 'should' be?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-27 07:51
Why should it be on then front. That is surely mechanically inappropriate unless the instrument has an 'open G#' or articulated G#.
I presume that without the centre tenon, they have moved the tone hole further down the instrument, to a more acoustically appropriate position, as is done for articulated G# instruments.
I wonder what is the point of a screwed on barrel. It just takes longer to put on, and is more likely to leak.
The Orsi clarinets I have worked on have always disappointed me with their mechanism. Rather like a rehash of the old Grassi clarinets.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-01-27 09:15
Sorry Gordon, I thought that the 'correct' placement for the G# tonehole was further down on the front of the instrument.
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2004-01-27 10:33
My Rossi (A) is one piece body, and the C#/G# key is placed on the front, and it is not misplaced or mechanically inappropiate.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-27 15:29
(Gordon (NZ)) >> The Orsi clarinets I have worked on have always disappointed me with their mechanism. Rather like a rehash of the old Grassi clarinets. <<
Orsi always gave me the impression of being into novelty for its own sake. There's no other explanation for being the only maker in the world still offering a pro line metal clarinet.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-01-27 16:16
paulwl wrote: "Orsi always gave me the impression of being into novelty for its own sake. There's no other explanation for being the only maker in the world still offering a pro line metal clarinet."
Other than the best explanation of all, which is of course that some people must be buying the things. If nobody bought them, Orsi would hardly build them just to lose money.
To expand Gordon's comment, the acoustically appropriate latitude of the C#/G# hole is lower on the instrument than we usually see. If mechanical complication can be avoided, its longitude is unimportant -- front, back, either side, it doesn't matter..
If Pete Fountain can have a Clarinet named after him, why not Joe Green.
Regards,
John
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-01-27 18:19
in NZ (where Gordon and i live) there was a fad some years ago whereby a number of advanced players purchased Orsi Clarinets. i often read snide remarks about the "Big Four" and yet these instruments would have been far better investments (both in terms of $$$ and playing) than the Orsi Clarinets. While i'm sure that Gordon might offer evidence of mechanical problems with the "Big Four", there is no question that Orsi clarinets did not offer the acoustical advantages of even your average R13
in particular, on most Orsi clarinets i have ever played you must fight like crazy to hold pitch/tone at different dynamic levels. This is of course a problem on any clarinet, but good design can reduce this effect. The only professional player i know of who used Orsi for any length of time spent a good deal of money in New York getting it customised for intonation (including bell key to sharpen low f/e, something many clarinets could use admitedly).
in nearly 5 years living/studying/playing in the USA i never saw, or even heard mention of, a single Orsi clarinet and it was no loss to the clarinet world.
they do kinda sound nice though.
donald
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-27 21:06
javier garcia m wrote:
<My Rossi (A) is one piece body, and the C#/G# key is placed on the front, and it is not misplaced or mechanically inappropriate.>
Forgive me if my brain is befuddled, but it seems to me that a double mechanism, lever-&-key (such as with articulated G#) is necessary in order to put the G# tone hole on the top of the instrument, simply because unlike neighbouring keys, one presses down to LIFT a key cup.
The only way to retain a single key and move it to the front is to have an 'open G3' which would create non-standard fingering.
This is what I originally wrote about.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-01-27 21:18
I always thought that the only reason a standard G#/C# key (meaning not the fancy articulated) would be put more towards the "front" of the clarinet just to get it out of the path of saliva. I knew that the "optimal" position would be lower, but when you think about it, you can cut the hole anywhere around on the clarinet, as long as it's the right height on the body, and produce the same sound.
Meaning that my register key could be at the bottom. Or the fancy wrap-around on the side and they'll still work the same as long as they are both __ mm from the barrel. The only reason it's on the bottom is for the simplicity of creating it and for the fact that it is easier to adjust. Same with any other pad/tone hole (including G#).
In conclusion: ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
The 'optimal' placement of the G# tone hole is farther down the body, while whether it's more towards the front or not shouldn't affect it's tone at all. Only the convenience of playing and/or making it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-27 23:57
The reason it is normally placed too 'north' on the body (and made smaller to compensate the intonation) is to avoid the hole interfering with the tenon. This theoretically compromises tone and possibly stability of intonation.
Unlike the ring keys, F/C, and E/B, a simple G# key (and all the other keys with normally closed pads) MUST have the 'touch piece' on one side of the hinge, and the key cup on the other side. Hence the displacement of the tone hole around the instrument, which has no effect on the way the instrument plays. For a non-articulated G# key, the tone hole CANNOT be on the upper side of the instrument.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2004-01-29 02:29
I recall reading that Orsi keeps all pattern pieces & jigs & such and is willing to make anything they have ever made. They may offer to make a metal clarinet for the price of a new pro instrument, but until they actually make one, there is no telling how well it will play. Somebody in Italy made a lot of metal clarinets, but other than some double walled models by Rampone, I have never seen any that identified the maker or looked like they were anything better than student. The one I took apart wasn't worth putting back together. (I did keep the screws.) I did talk to an older tech who thought the Italian metal clarinets were the worst.
However, if you want to buy one, I would like to get a complete report.
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-01-29 03:30
CL - 22D
German system
Bb 23 keys, 6 rings
Still beats me you know!
I have counted and re-counted and still come up with only 22 keys [and that's counting the rings] - are there 4 side keys on the top joint perhaps, it's difficult to see in the picture .........and do they count the C# key [with the R1 alternative extension] as two keys? Seems like they do.
Anyway,I can't see why the makers of German system clarinets include the rings as part of the key count......and here Orsi is also counting the rings as separate, what the hey!!
Better to count rings and levers/keys as per Boehm. A ring is a ring and a key is a key.
Case in point.................Orsi counts keys differently [per system] on the one page............what's the point? Are we players of Albert/simple system meant to be seduced into purchasing a German system because of the key count? Do German system players need the impression they have more keys on their instruments than the Boehm players?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-01-29 04:04
John,
I honestly thought that german systems HAD more keys. I never stopped to look at one and realize that they counted the rings as keys. Boy do I feel like an idiot. Well, if it's a different playing system, there's no reason it can't be a different numbering system. Just like how in the US we would label a Rossi at $3,500.00 US Dollars whereas others would think of it as $3.500,00 US Dollars.
Although as you can I was EXTREMELY confused by this too. Sometimes I think some things should be universal. Like if we had all just stuck with latin instead of branching off on our own languages derived from latin. Or if we all used the same measuring system(metric). Or if all the toilets in the world could flush the same way (clockwise). Then there'd be less stress on our minds.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-01-29 15:20
Attachment: p1290006.jpg (21k)
Buffet puts the C#/G# vent on top when their instruments lack the middle tenon. Actually, this clarinet has a second C#/G# key, a banana between the first and second fingers of the right hand. See photo attached
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-01-29 15:26)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-01-29 17:10
!) Orsi claims to have on display samples of every model they have ever built. And they will be pleased to custom-make a Clarinet just like any one of those for the right price. Perhaps you might be able to try an item in their display if you're really serious about buying one like it.
2) German system Clarinets count a key more than once if it has more than one use. It appears that pads attached to rings are counted as "keys," too, at least by some builders. Get those numbers high, y'know?
Regards,
John
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-29 17:19
>> German system Clarinets count a key more than once if it has more than one use. <<
One would expect no less from a nation of obsessive-compulsives. ;-)
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-01-31 09:37
""Just like how in the US we would label a Rossi at $3,500.00 US Dollars whereas others would think of it as $3.500,00 US Dollars. ""
Actually Alexi, I would see the comma first followed by the dot to be correct as would most others too I expect, dot followed by comma does not make a great deal of sense to me. Being an Aussie and used to using shortcuts, I would probably more likely write $3,500 or even $3500.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-01-31 09:54
You're right. I worded that sentence wrong. I should've said "Just like how SOME countries would label . . . ." It sounded like I thought only the US did that. I meant that some countries do, and some countries don't. My mistake.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Avie
Date: 2004-01-31 13:38
Very interesting. Among'st other things I often wondered why they didnt make clarinets out of one piece. I wonder about the one piece quality and price. A little easier to clean but would be more difficult to transport. I wonder how ebony wood holds up as far as cracking and tone. It would be interesting to try one out.
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