 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Jake
Date: 2004-01-23 17:39
I just read a book...
...
...
called "Nothing but the best: The struggle for perfection at juilliard"
and it was an amazing book!
have any of you read it?
it changed my perspective of juilliard totally, but that was written quite a while ago and heres my question, if any of you have read this book, do you think juilliard has changed, just wondering,
bye thanx
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brandon
Date: 2004-01-23 21:24
I will have to agree with SWK. If you tell us what your impressions were before and now after, that might help us out. I have been to Juilliard many ocassions and have seen many different facets of the school. Let us know what you are looking for in particular.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-25 00:58
I attended night school at Juilliard for a year for ear training. Just being around the place two nights a week, you get quite a good idea of the atmosphere. I learned quite a bit, but I wouldn't do it again.
People have this idea that music education on this level of intensity is a soul-enriching humanistic experience. It's not. It's not meant to be. It's strictly music (or dance or acting) and the hell with everything else – including you, if you get in the way of the music. It's about building musicians, not people.
It's like those TV magazine shows they do about little girl gymnasts, except that the young people are over 18 and the goal is presumed to be loftier and more "worth it," so the criticism is mostly whispered.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2004-01-25 10:37
How many Oberlin students does it take to change a light bulb?
Two - one to change the bulb, and one to say "I could have done that."
How many Curtis students does it take to change a light bulb?
Two - one to change the bulb, and one to say "I could have done that better."
How many Juilliard students does it take to change a light bulb?
Two - one to stand on a chair and the other to kick the chair out.
|-(8^)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-01-26 17:54
Here's an interesting story about Nikolaj Znaider, who went to Juilliard and then left:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2004/01/24/bmzna24.xml&sSheet=/arts/2004/01/24/ixartleft.html
The best quote: Opportunity passes most people by because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work.
Juilliard is nothing but hard work, far too often at the expense of making music. On the other hand, if you have music in you, Juilliard will give you the tools to express it.
Anyone with the basic mechanical aptitude can learn to play the notes. The basic musical aptitude is something different, and the two don't always go together.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-01-26 18:16
Hi Ken,
The opportunity quote was by another son of Ohio, inventor Thomas Edison. A terrifc statement.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-01-26 18:17)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-26 20:11
Well, there's work in the sense of expending intellectual energy, rising to a positive challenge, a venturing out to tackle new horizons...and then there's work in the sense of zero intellectual fascination and zero immediate payoff, mixed with the frustration of constantly confronting your insecurities and inadequacies.
I differ with old Tom here: The reason opportunity passes most people by is not so much that it's dressed in overalls and looks like work. A lot of us would don those Big Smiths for a sure paycheck at the end of the week. The real reason is that it's often dressed in the rumpled black robes of discouragement, and it feels like futility, a struggle against the odds.
It takes faith and bravery to willingly tear down what you have built in order to create anew. If, as with Znaider, you either have or don't need a support system that helps you through that process, you can do very well. Otherwise, you'd better develop a thick skin and an unshakable sense of purpose.
I was at Carnegie Hall yesterday to see the Berlin Staatskapelle, and climbing those seemingly endless steps to the dress circle, it struck me that the path to music success can be a lot like the stairway to one's seat in Carnegie: cold, bare, steep, uninviting, and very, very crowded. But you'd better not wait for the elevator, because you'll be waiting a long, long time...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-01-26 20:27
Thanks for the Edison reference. The more familiar one is "Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration."
So how do you succeed in Carnegie Hall? Well, you climb, and you climb, and ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-26 22:46
(SWK) >> Oh Boo Hoo. <<
Can it, all right?
I'm sick of people trying to put over corrosive cynicism and as good advice. I posted what I did for discussion, not reaction. (As to the OTness of it, maybe so; it looked like we'd gone off Juilliard for the moment anyway.)
If all pros were really like you, I'd have gone into the dry cleaning business by now. If I ever play when you happen to be in the audience, you are cordially invited to walk out.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-01-26 23:21
paulwl wrote:
> (SWK) >> Oh Boo Hoo. <<
>
> Can it, all right?
I'm the one who'll ask people to "can it" if I think necessary, not you, please.
What you see as cynicism is what others see as realism.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-26 23:35
All right, Mark, I admit I was out of line on the can-it comment.
Far be it from me to deny the harshness of some aspects of the music world. But it seems as though some are constantly underscoring that at the least opportunity, maybe even acting a little smug about it.
*My* realism, in *my* life, is that such an attitude destroys all the joy I find in playing music. I consider it a rank attempt to mess with my mind and take away something very precious to me.
I shall digress no more.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ben
Date: 2004-01-27 00:22
paulwl:
If you are going to allow social metaphysics to so closely interfere with your enjoyment of music, perhaps you should open a laundry!
Someone who knows:
So true....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-01-27 00:37
paulwl wrote:
> *My* realism, in *my* life, is that such an attitude destroys
> all the joy I find in playing music. I consider it a rank
> attempt to mess with my mind and take away something very
> precious to me.
And I know that you find great solace in your playing, as do your audiences.
The unfortunate part, in my mind, are the machines that produce some fine musicans but have not prepared those musicians for the realities of making a living at their profession. Something like the realities that any profession faces, not just in music. I'm in IT, and at this moment I wouldn't counsel any student to take up this profession unless they truly love it, since at least in the USA they'll be under relentless pressure. I love my work, but I also know that I have to look forwards a couple of years all the time to see how I'm going to remake myself and have a continuing career - because if I don't I'll have no career at all.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: paulwl
Date: 2004-01-27 09:10
>> relentless pressure. <<
Doesn't it sometimes seem like the steam that turns the wheels of the economic juggernaut? They ought to make it a Leading Economic Indicator. Gross Domestic Pressure. In the future (to paraphrase Andy Warhol), everyone will have job security for 15 minutes.
So maybe Juilliard *is* preparing its students to succeed...or am I breaking my word not to digress again? :-/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
