 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: magritte
Date: 2004-01-10 15:22
What is the best plastic clarinet you can buy?
I realize that, to the devoted wood fanatic, this question is similar to "who is the world's tallest dwarf?" But, I have a humidity/dry heat problem in my home and I want to stay with plastic.
Thanks for your opinions,
magritte
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Author: William
Date: 2004-01-10 15:34
"who is the world's tallest dwarf?" That big guy from the recent movie, "Elf".
Now, for the real answer--There is none, because none of us can really agree on what's best. My preference is for an older Bundy Resonite, by the Selmer complany. But others will certainly recommend LeBlancs Vito model. Charles Bay--mouthpiece expert and bass clarinetist extrodianare--once said that a plastic bass clarinet can sound just as good as the most expensive wood clarinet, if "set up right". So it may just be a matter of finding one that plays nicely, rather than which particular company made it. Regardless, however, if it were a matter of "sight unseen", I would go with Bundy Resonite--my own personal choice.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2004-01-10 15:53
Depending on your definition of "plastic" you might want to add Buffet
Greenline to your list. Some of the old hard rubber clarinets also have their proponents.
John
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-01-10 16:30
Well, I can agree on what's best. Agree with myself, at least. I usually play on a piece of plastic, and I also love good values.
For the money, no plastic Clarinet in current production is better (for just about any reason) than the intermediate Vito V-40 -- except for the Buffet R13 Greenline, which is a truly professional Clarinet with plastic behavior because of its composition: 95% zillions of teeny bits of wood surrounded by 5% plastic. The V-40 may be had from a friendly Leblanc dealer for around $500, the R13 Greenline may be had from a friendly Buffet dealer for around $1,500.
Mr. Botch speaks highly of the hard rubber Ridenour TR147. I never played one (nor a Greenline, for that matter), but I'm sure it is no doubt a good item, Tom Ridenour, who also designed the V-40, knows his Clarinets.
Much of the above is my opinion, YMMV
Regards,
John
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2004-01-11 02:19
I play lots of outdoor dixie gigs and decided I'd try some plastic clarinets to save wear and tear on my wooden one. Through eBay, I bought a Buffet B12 and a little later a Vito V40....I must say, I was very pleasantly suprised by both of them. I like the way the B12 feels like my R13, but the V40 has a little more power, so it's the one that usually gets the nod. With my normal mouthpiece, I have no problem playing a plastic clarinet for many gigs. I even started using the Vito on big band gigs. Maybe I was lucky, but the V40 went for well under $100 and looked vitually new and needed no repairs.
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Author: Alyra
Date: 2004-01-11 03:18
I quite like my old Buffet B12 But I remember playing Bundys at school and they were good, too.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-11 04:59
I can't stand the distorted fingers that Bundy forces on me.
I find little wrong with a well-adjusted Yamaha. but the Yamaha plastics from Japan that i see may be different animals from the USA one.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-01-11 20:18
I've only played on a Yamaha student model ... it was a nice instrument.
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2004-01-11 21:31
I've played several Yamahas and a couple of Vitos and they are both quite good. The Yamahas seem a bit more consistant from one instrument to another, but other than that, either is nice. The best can't say, but they do the job.
RW
Best
Rick
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-12 22:11
My vote would be for the Selmer Bundy too. Its what I played on in high school. But I have to say I do not remember trying any others at the time. A lot of us frequently talk and compare big bore clarinets with other clarinets. Did you know (if I remember correctly) the Bundy has a large .059" (15mm) bore!! I listened to Jerry Fuller at a concert many years ago and asked what kind horn he was playing. He said his main axe had got stolen and he was using a Bundy. I was in shock, I thought all the pros were playing wood clarinets.
PS - He also said he was using a HS** mouthpiece and (you ready for this) a fibercane reed. The whole set up was plastic! Still, Jerry sounded great. If you are not familiar with Jerry Fuller, he has a bright clear tone similar to Benny Goodman.
Jim
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-13 00:11
Personally I think the tone difference between the plastic and timber clarinets is greatly exaggerated, to maintain the mystique and prestige of timber, and justify what the player has spent to buy timber. Some double blind testing with well set up instruments would be interesting.
On three occasions I have been 'blown away' by the tone of the player beside me in the pit. On two occasions the instrument turned out to be plastic - once a Yamaha and once an old Bundy***. The tone comes largely from the player.
(Disclaimer: I am a mere amateur player.)
***Edit: Sorry, it was not a Bundy, but a B&H Regent, made from a similar material to the old Bundys. A pity the Regents had that 'pot metal' for the keys, and sloppy key geometry.
Post Edited (2004-01-13 04:49)
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Author: William
Date: 2004-01-13 00:54
Back in 1955, when I was entering high school, The Bundy clarinet was being touted by Selmer as the non-wooden professional level instrument of the future. They hoped that the Resonite would "catch on" as the Greenline material of Buffet has recently done. My Dad bought me one for the high school band and I wound up going to state festival on it and receiving class A 1st Division Ratings both times. I also placed first chair for two years in an all district band (as a soph & junior) and won second chair in an audition for an all state band at the Univeristy of Wisconsin--Madison as a junior. I don't mean to brag--my point is that I did all of this on a Selmer Bundy Resonite with an HS** mpc.
Now, after going through a whole bunch of Selmer, Buffet and LeBlanc pro level wood clarinets, I still wish I had that old Bundy to "kick around" with. It's the instrument that really got me into playing music seriously and I miss it still. I have not played any of the modern plastic clarinets out there, so I will not comment on any of them. But my old Bundy was a great instrument (for $99) and I think I could still fool many listeners with it And so I (once more) cast my vote for the vintage Bundy Resonite.
(I know I voted twice, but isn't it an old Chicago practice to "vote early...and vote often"?)
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-13 03:07
William, I think we are about the same age. I started high school in 1954. You confirm what I was saying about those old large bore Bundy's. If you have lived in Chicago since 1955 I am sure you must have heard of Jerry Fuller. He played with the original Duke's for quite a few years. My current LeBlanc PF model has a 15mm bore like the old Bundy.
Jim
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-01-13 14:59
The discussions about wood vs plastic always interest me. There is no doubt in my mind that a "plastic" horn CAN sound as good as a wood one since I have experienced it. But, until the Greenline, plastic horns have always represented attempts at cost reductions by the makers and as a result they have not generally expended the time necessary to fine tune them. The V40 and Pete Fountain probably are exceptions and maybe some of the Bundys. Chamfering the bottoms of the tone holes can do much for any plastic horn.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-13 19:49
The tone holes on several current student, plastic models are now undercut. It used to be a very expensive, time consuming operation. I suspect it now takes a minute or two to do the entire instrument on a CNC machine. If not, it is time it was!
Of course they will be all cut to a computer programme, not individually with on-going assessment by a player with expertise in clarinet acoustics.
On the other hand once the computer is taught to get it right, it will get it right EVERY time.
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Author: Alyra
Date: 2004-01-14 11:40
Speaking of Bundys - if anyone is after them - there's a few nice ones on Australian ebay right now. With the exchange rate, it'd be very cheap for americans to buy them!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-01-14 15:01
Hi,
I picked up a Bundy Mazzeo a little while back as my outdoor/foul weather clarinet. The sound is big but the intomation is not quite close enough for any critical playing. But for $60 (pads and case were perfect), I do have a neat piece of clarinet history with the Mazzeo setup.
When I was doing my time as a HS band director, the Bundy was pretty much bullet-proof. With a Portnoy or HS** mouthpiece and a Luyben ligature, I had a lot of students do well at contest. Just like William.
HRL
PS I know Bob D is big on the Vito as I have seen his stockpile; I appears to be a pretty nice clarinet.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-01-29 13:25
Just stumbled upon this old thread.
I was recently surprised by the good results I'm having with a Walter Grabner K11e & #3 Legere Quebec set up on an old Bundy.
I had been looking for a back up clarinet that I can use for hot summer outdoor gigs. I tried an older model plastic Yamaha last year and discovered that Grabner mouthpieces play rather flat on it. I then tried several Muncy barrels and they helped. However, I was never entirely happy with my quality of sound on the Yamaha. I then tried an old metal clarinet and it was quickly given a place of safety in my closet. I haven't had an oppurtunity to try a good quality hard rubber clarinet -- I'd like to. Finally, a sax buddy gave me a 70's Bundy he was not using.
The Bundy is in excellent condition. The action was improved with a treatment of The Doctor's key oil. However, when I first tried my trusty Grabner K14 on the Bundy it didn't feel quite right to me. I then spent some time trying other Grabner mouthpieces I have (K11, K11e, K14e).
I hit pay dirt with the K11e. This mouthpiece and a #3 Legere Quebec really brings the old Bundy to life. It's quality of sound is pretty darn good....better than I remember the Yamaha being. In fact, the more I play the Bundy with the K11e the more it grows on me. It's definitely a fun set up to play -- especially, in how it gives me some something different from my grenadilla clarinets.
The Bundy will definitely meet my needs for a rugged and decent-sounding outdoor clarinet. Given how well-made the Bundy is and how good it can sound with a top-notch mouthpiece I cannot help but wonder about the need for cheap Asian imports. Why not simply recycle old Bundies?
Roger
Post Edited (2008-02-01 00:45)
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2008-01-29 13:56
magritte,
when i recently renewed my clarinet playing i had a 40-year-old Vito Reso-Tone clarinet in the closet. Unuseable.
So I bought a reconditioned Selmer Signet, which is at least 10 or perhaps even 20 years old. It's in fairly good shape, except for a really stuffy B at the register change. I use an old Blayman mouthpiece (H--close facing) and 2.5 to 3 Vandoren reeds (remember I'm just getting back to this after decades away.) It plays in tune and even now I can get it to sound musical. My teacher makes it sound better, of course, but not quite as good as his 1964 R-13.
i've heard that the older plastic clarinets are a bit better than the newer ones because recent environmental concerns imposed changes on manufacturing that have had a negative impact on the tone. has anyone heard a similar theory?
Weberfan
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Author: jwiseman114
Date: 2008-01-29 14:18
Ridenoir, Buffet B12, and check out the Andino by Gemstone. I assume that your talking price range so hard rubber/plastic are equal although hard rubber is a better material accoustically.
I don't love Yamaha's but they're certainly not bad. I would stay away from Vito and Selmer.
If you want to contact me personally I know of a clarinet that you may be interested in.
John Wiseman
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-29 15:30
There are very few of the best of any make and model of any clarinet manufacturer. Therefore, try before buy. I have owned 5 Ridenour clarinets. Four were used, but are excellent instruments. They are hard rubber. The new Ridenour student instrument is ABS plastic. You can call Ridenour for more info. The Forte clarinet is another to consider.
richard smith
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Author: EJ
Date: 2008-01-29 15:57
I have a Yamaha 20 that I keep for outdoor concerts. Don't mean to state the obvious, but a better quality mouthpiece than the stock one that comes with the horn makes a huge difference in the tone quality.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-29 17:55
This very interesting discussion caused me to find my Maz Bundy #257,3xx and measure UJ bores at 14.70 -.75 mm, IMHO the same as their popular 577 models I believe. Yes, easy playing, tuning OK via brief playing, "feels" nearly as good as my Selmer USA Omega, which, incidentally, I'm not sure is wood !! Any comments? As Sherman F discussed in an earlier thread, the Maz's pinch Bb is nearly as good as the trill key Bb, likely due to the covered [plateaued] thumb hole, so I disabled mine with tape over the trill hole, making it a "standard" 17/6. Heresy?, it works ! Just thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-01-29 19:09
Speaking of Mazzeo Bundies - I find - once reverted to standard fingering (heresy, I know) - them well suited for people who have problems covering the thumb hole while operating the register key. There's not much to nag about the tuning, it's light and nearly indestructible.
(Mine has the serial 1070xxx - did they do over a million of them, or do they share the serial number with other Bundy models?)
--
Ben
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-01-29 23:07
Tha Yamaha student plays very well and is dependable. The Vito student plays well in tune but is a bit resistant. The Buffet student clarinet feels great and plays well but it has blue steel springs and they do not do well in wet weather, they rust. Older Bundys are terrific, they are tough, easy to fix and put up with anything.
I have recently repaired a Lyrique clarinet, I was rather unimpressed.
Please note that the new Buffet USA company has a minimum selling price for all of it's pro horns, call around for the best price but don't expect a huge range.
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Author: Ed Svoboda
Date: 2008-01-30 02:54
Bundy and Buescher shared the same serial numbers for minimally clarinet and saxophones. I'm not sure about the trumpets.
www.woodwindforum.com/forums
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-01-30 03:07
I performed on the new Bliss model at the Namm show last week. This is a really good clarinet that has amazing intonation and a really nice sound. I hear that the street price for this clarinet will be between $500-600. As soon as one is available I will have one to use on those gigs where I worry about my Symphony.
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with The Atonement, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer" and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance. Go to my facebook site to hear a few premature release tracks from the Atonement's soon to be released CD.
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Author: Niente
Date: 2008-01-30 13:30
I love my old Yamaha 20, but it is one of the worst tuned clarinets you will find out there! I swear, C above the staff was 20 cents flat, and my throat tones were anywere from 20 to 40 cents sharp, with me putting down all bottom three fingers + pinky! Ugh!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-01-30 14:09
In my experience ...2 Yamaha 20 horns....they are "fussy" about which mp and barrel is used. Some other barrels for Bb sops won't even fit the uj tenon.
Bob Draznik
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Author: jwiseman114
Date: 2008-01-30 20:14
The Bliss model is made by Leblanc/Conn-Selmer and is based on the Backun's pro clarinet.
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2008-01-31 05:20
Regarding the Bundy Resonites...are these all the same? Are all horns branded this way .590" bore instruments? Do these all have straight single diameter bores, or are they polycylindrical? What about the undercut ones?
I know these are a lot of questions, but I'm curious how similar these are to the early Selmer Centered tone and Series 9 clarinets which I am fond of.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-01-31 07:00
As far as I know, most resonites are Bundy "577" models (trad. and Mazzeo) in various forms, but some (older?) had a .590 bore. None of the models I've worked on had a polycylindrical bore or undercut tone holes.
--
Ben
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Author: CrystalClear7
Date: 2008-02-10 01:33
I've been playing an old Bundy for years and I think it's pretty respectable. I love mine and can't stand to play anything else.
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