 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-02 20:07
I thought I was pretty familier with O'Brien mouthpieces but again I find one with a marking I am not aware of, '2-S'. The only thing I can think is maybe it was an early 2* --- 2 S(tar)? If it is a early one this would be good as the chambers were better when Harry O'Brien was involved. Anyone know about this '2-S' marking? Appreciate any help with identifing the tip opening or anything else. I do not have the mouthpiece.
Thanks Much
Jim
Post Edited (2004-01-02 23:46)
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Author: Snowy
Date: 2004-01-03 00:20
JimV
Don't know if this helps but I have an O'Brien 3* from MANY years ago.
On the outside of the box is inscribed:-
"Made in the following lays:-
No 1. Very short.Close
No 2. Medium, French
OB* Very popular
No 2*, More open tip than OB*
No 3 }
No 3*}
No 4 } each gradually more open.
No 4*}
No 5
No 5* is the most open"
In Vertical writing is inscribed
" THE NEW OFF CENTRE BORE OCB MODEL"
Have no record of date bought but would imagine late 60's. The (originally) white paper wrapped round the cardboard cylinder id VERY yellow
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-03 00:59
I also have a 2-S O'Brien, which as I recall ["So Many Years Ago", as the tune in Pinafore goes, with humorous clar "answers"] . My conclusions from playing on it and my O'B mailing tube, as above, are that 2 = close and S = short. I believe I ordered it on recommendation of my teacher, F Perne, very French!, from whom I bought my first good cl, a Penzel Mueller full Boehm. I much prefer more open/longer lay mps. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-03 01:02
Thanks Snowy, the facings you list are the ones I'm familier with. I am told this particular mouthpiece is marked '2-S'. I do not know what '2-S' means?
Jim
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-03 01:35
Fantastic! What you say about it would make sense too! The 2 would be a very close tip of .37 or .925mm and the S could indicate the facing length. But the O'Brien tubes (old) and the later paper inserts in plastic case never showed anything about facing length except on No 1. They just had: No 1. Very short.Close, No 2. Medium, French, OB* Very popular, 2*, More open tip than OB*, No 3, 3*, 4, 4*, 5, 5*. Nothing about a '2-S'.
Don, you say you actually have one that says '2-S'! Have you played it lately? Do you know when you bought it? How old is it? Is the 2 digit year marked on it?
Excited
Jim
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-03 14:23
Jim [Excited ?] - Yes, I found my O/B mps, my [shown as] 2 [above] S, not hyphenated, has O'Brien and Superiere [beneath] in script [ all on the back]. My recollection is that I bought it in the late 1930's, while in high school, to replace the [broken] one my teacher gave me with the PM cl. Again, I recall, it played flat above the staff, shortening the barrel didn't really help overall intonation, so didn't play it much. In the early 1950's, on a business trip to NYC, I took it and several others to the Woodwind Co's workshop [off BDY??] and had it refaced, Prob?? to a G [or] B, 7 or 8 which it still may be. Will play it against my Selmer Clarion and my, refaced to 5RVL by Manfredo Cavallini, Italy, other [unmarked] O'B which I didn't care for either, as I was playing more jazz than classic at those [funny] times. Will report more later today/tomorrow, am busy now. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-04 21:18
Re: Promise to report on glass mp trials, using a med LaVoz and Luyben lig on all 3, 2 S, Clarion and 5RVL. I find very little diff. among them, modest resistance with the 5RVL, which I prefer here [will compare with good HR's]. Using a sheet of paper for measuring the lay length of the 2 S, its about 18 mm, so I conclude that I had it refaced as mentioned earlier, as I would expect O'B's Fr. "short" to be 15-16 mms, sorry, Jim V. Both the Clarion and the 5RVL ?measured? about 20 mm. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2004-01-04 22:49
You guys keep in mind......the O'Brien's are NOT made of crystal. They are glass. Big difference. At least in the material.
JG
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-05 02:31
In a very strict sense, JG, you are correct, glass [or a glass] is amorphous, not having a crystalline structure, as does its near-relative quartz crystal. However, in my medium-sized dictionary, the wide-spread use of both terms, and the given variety of common usages seem to make the two quite interchangable. The big Webster prob. has many more definitions, further "muddying the waters". I have always considered that the crystal-glass term is applied to the highly transparent [high lead etc content] glasses as in table wear etc, "as clear as crystal". Just my thots. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-05 04:36
Thanks Don, thanks so much for taking the time to check out your O'Brien 2 S for me. I am sure it would have been to close for me but could have got it refaced if the chamber was good. Even though I am pretty new to BBoard I have read many posts you have written. I understand you are in your 80s! Let me say, You are a credit to the music world. You help everyone as often and give freely of your time when you can.
Thanks John, the reason I call O'Brien a crystal is that I think 90% of clarinet players refer to them as crystal. The original Harry O'Brien & (son) Lowell mouthpieces were definitely made from glass. In fact I was told they would actually melt down old Coke bottles. Most of the melting was done in their garage during the cool months as it would get extremely hot. I also was told that due to the Coke bottles is why some of the O'Brien mouthpieces were not clear but had a tint to them. When someone says something about a crystal mouthpiece, I know they are talking about a glass mouthpiece, regardless of who made it. As far as hardness, I feel they are the same and equal. If you drop glass it breaks, if you drop crystal it breaks. I agree, the only crystal I know of is in fine dinning glasses, etc.
"Gimme those good ole coke bottle babies"
Jim
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-05 16:49
TKS, Jim, what kind words!, very welcome to an 84 1/2 yr. clar player, trying to age [only] slowly. Having had a rewarding tech career, topped off by info retrieval via patents and literature, I still do enjoy various forms of research. 'Nuff [too much] said. I did the play-testing on my LeBlanc Dynamic 2, 15.0 mm, big bore cl. Checking the mps's tenon diameter against the barrel, all of the mps seemed slightly larger than the barrel top ID. Whether using any of the glasses on a smaller dia cl, 14.8 -.6?? might cause problems is beyond me, may try another experiment! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-05 17:59
Don, I play a 15mm bore clarinet also, the Pete Fountain model with all the goodies, forked Bb, articulated G#, and yes even the gold keys. I got it back in 1987. Have been playing Dixieland with 4 different jazz bands for 40 years. I'm a retired Payroll Supervisor from John Deere after 30 years with them, a great company. I don't tell to many people where I bought my clarinet, but every so often like to brag, his initials are PF. I recently got a O'Brien with a #3 facing and it is one of the best I have ever played. To much work trying to support air to the larger tip openings like the 4* or larger. I have been told I sound a lot like Pete F, even if it took the first 20 years to get there!
Go for the FAT sound!
Jim
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-06 14:54
Jim et al - Fat [in Dixieland music] is GREAT! I view my Dyn 2 as my poor-man's PF, having played-worked on a Dyn H and a real PF and found little diff in feel and response. Key systems the same, fork and artic! I "look-in" at estate sales, and have bought [for a song] several PF LP's, one with Al Hirt also, which I copy off for travel-play, and let good friends burn on a CD. My latest is "Mr Stick Man" Coral CRL757473, the cover shows PF playing a glass mp on a gold-keyed [and lig] 18/7 LeBlanc, perhaps the cl you now own ??? The tunes he plays are a bit unusual, but fine! Regards, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: JimV
Date: 2004-01-06 23:09
Don, I have just about every record Fountain made. Did not care for the period of time he was doing many pop songs. Actually told him that one time, not smart on my part, but he told me he had to record what would sell! He was right because that was how he made his living, all I have ever done is play on the side along with my day job. I do not own 'Betsy', I own one of the back ups for 'Betsy', in fact the horn he made all 100 albums with is retired. It was sent to France to get completely overhauled including replacing the ring keys as thay were worn down so bad they had sharp edges. It did not play like the old Betsy when it came back, as you know he is playing a Big Easy now, basically the same horn. I remember going to the LeBlanc factory about 39 years ago to see a guy named Charlie Ford, the Sales Manager, about a Dynamic H, played several horns and picked one. But that horn never did play like Pete's. I ended up getting a Selmer 9, not the 9*, and played it til it got stolen, it was a very good horn. Once you find a big bore LeBlanc that plays in tune with itself your home free for playing all kinds of Jazz and Dance gigs. Do you have the album called 'Pete Fountain Day'? Morty Corb, Stan Wrightsman, and Jack Sperling are on the band, you can hear the Goodman influence!
Must stop rambling - haha
Jim
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