 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Luke
Date: 2003-12-26 19:15
I just got a Click tuning barrel for xmas. So far I really like it but there's one issue, it's stuck onto the upper body of my clarinet! I don't want to force it off because it's really stuck on there and I don't want to damage either the body or the barrel by gripping too hard and bending a key. Is there anything I can do to assist in this (like compress the cork with temp changes?) or shall I just stick the barrel in the vice and hope for the best?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-26 19:30
Let the clarinet sit for a few hours. That way hopefully the wood will dry up a little bit. When the wood gets moist it swells so that might be a problem. After that, I'd be a little wary about putting it back on until you've had someone check to make sure that it's a proper fit. What clarinet do you have? Someone clued me in that Leblanc and Selmer clarinets have a slightly larger tenon size than Buffets and Yamahas. And the click barrel might be made for a buffet size tenon.
Alexi
I might be really wrong though . . . this is just an "educated guess".
US Army Japan Band
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-12-26 20:08
Luke,
Please don't use a vise.
I had this once and it required a trip to the repair technician, which is a lot cheaper than a new clarinet.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-12-26 21:56
I'm sitting here biting my keyboard in an effort to prevent myself from saying:
Luke . . . Use the Force . . .
But I'm not going to say it. It just wouldn't be right . . .
The advice, that is . . .
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-12-26 22:20
This topic has been addressed before and there were some useful suggestions. Please "search" for that advice.
I had this happen also. I put the clarinet in the sun until the whole thing warmed up a bit, and then I was able to get the barrel off.
Good luck,
Ray
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Author: Luke
Date: 2003-12-26 23:26
Thanks for the advice everyone's given, however the clarinet it's stuck on is a plastic student model Reynolds (probably a stencil), so none of the "wood advice" helps. I've thought of perhaps setting the dried section of the clarinet that's stuck together outside in the sub-freezing temperatures for a few minutes (just outside a window, under my supervision of course) in an effort to compress the cork (i've expanded cork before with just a lighter). That's about the only thing I can think of other than forcing, as I don't think plastic changes dimensions like wood.
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-12-26 23:47
If you havn't try it, rock the two pieces that are stuck from side to side while pulling slightly. You be the judge on 'slightly'.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-12-27 00:31
Hi Luke,
If you have not done so already, try using those small rubber sheets, to grip with, that are used to open jars. It is hard to get a good hold on either the upper section or the barrel with just your hands.
Another thought is put the clarinet in the freezer or outside (under your watchful eye) and then when you bring it in/out, place a warm cloth around the barrel in an attempt to get the barrel to expand, ever so slightly. Twist with the rubber sheets.
HRL
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-27 01:14
I do'nt suppose the running the barrel under hot water like they do to jars would apply here? I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-27 03:07
Expansion/contraction of the metal with heat/cold is minute compared that of the plastic itself, so forget about the effects of heat/cold on the barrel.
Therefore cooling the instrument may help, but it will also make most cork greases more viscous and grippy.
Method 1, which has failed me (as the stronger person) only when the cork is involved as in mentioned in method 2: Get a person with stronger, tougher-skinned hands to twist it off, being careful not to exert sideways force or extreme radial force on the register and side keys.
Method 2, which I have only ever needed when the cork itself has BONDED to both surfaces: Bend the clarinet at the joint, as if you were trying to break the joint in half. This opens a very narrow slit, on the 'stretched' side, between the barrel and the body. Insert a sliver of something - metal shim, razor blade, cooking sparula... - into the slit, to stop it closing. Now bend the opposite way, and you will get a slightly wider slit. Put something into this - perhaps a credit card, two razor blades, a thicker metal shim etc. Keep alternating, bending one way and then the other, increasing the shim thickness, until the joint is loosened.
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Author: R13A
Date: 2003-12-27 03:34
I, too, had that delima once. Sought advice from many and received about what's posted above. The rubber thingy does not work and shouldn't be used for fear of bending keys on the UJ.
The letting it sit in a room (even with the heat 'up', did nothing.
Try holding the UJ in one hand and inserting a rather large wooden dowel into the bbl bore. A gentle 'rock' and you'll hear it 'pop'....then twist the bbl off.
Cork grease helps but has little to do with the cause of the problem....that's been addressed numerous times in prior posts.
good luck
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Author: Luke
Date: 2003-12-27 04:26
Well, I finally got the two apart! I showed a person much stronger than me where to position their hands to avoid damaging the upper joint and they were able to twist it off. It was a real challenge at first, but once they held it right it came right off. Turns out a serious twisting action is required, not a straight pull (cork grease didn't help much). I'm going to sand the cork down quite a bit until I find a comfortable fit for the barrel. Don't wanna have this trouble again. Thanks for all your help.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-12-27 05:32
Also, be sure not to overgrease the cork. I recommend putting the grease on your finger first, instead of chapsticking it straight on, and only enough to get your finger greasy (not enough to have "grease" on your finger). A search on this board should give more info on corks & greasing.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-27 05:33
Basically, the cork should be slippery to the touch, but you shouldn't be able to actually SEE a layer of grease on it (nor chunks of grease).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-27 14:44
It is most unlikely that the problem is with the cork.
The jamming is likely to be between the plastic at either end of the cork, and the barrel.
If you want the original barrel to still fit comfortably, the best option is to get the new barrel receiver turned larger, in a lathe.
Post Edited (2003-12-27 14:44)
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Author: Luke
Date: 2003-12-27 20:27
Gordon, you were right. The plastic was way too thick, while the cork was pretty much ok (but still a bit thick). I got the UJ sanded down to a good thickness and now my new barrel fits perfectly. I could care less whether or not the old barrel fits, I'm set on this one. Thankfully there aren't any issues with the mouthpiece getting stuck to the receiver!
The cork grease issue is kind of null, I always use just enough. What surprises me is how this stuff is all-important for clarinetists, whereas us saxophonists (clarinet doublers) hardly ever touch it. It seems these newer brands of cork grease are a lot "creamier" than the old kinds, I remember the vintage stuff (from about 20 years ago) being similar to chap-stick in viscosity (and hard to use).
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-27 22:50
The tenon cork geometry and demands are rather different on a sax.
1. On a clarinet the tenon is far shorter and fatter, so the issue of keeping the joint from wobbling during play places much greater demands on the function of the cork.
2. The need for functional grease depens on the resilience of the cork. This in turn is related to the thickness of the cork relative to the diameter of the tenon. For most saxes, this ratio is higher than for most clarinets, because of issues in '1'. (compare the bell tenon on a bassoon with the reed tenon on an oboe, the former being in far more ned of lubrication)
3. The fact that on a sax the tenon is tapered, and a well-installed cork has compensating reverse-taper in its thickness to match that taper... this has repercussions in the ratio of cork thickness to tenon diameter.
4. A loosely fitting sax tenon can function reasonably with the looseness filled/sealed with a caked-up, poor-qualikty cork grease. Such a situation does not stop a clarinet centre tenon wobbling as the player plays 'over the break'.
In general, clarinet and flute players are more interested in the perfect function of their instrument than sax players are. Perhaps that is because iimperfect function can more easily be 'played through' on sax. Perhaps it is because perfect function is more difficult to achieve and maintain on sax, simply because of its flimsiness, large tone holes, etc. Perhaps it is because it costs a lot more to maintain a sax in good order, so many more saxes never get this attention and the player just gets used to substandard function. The sax seems to attract more players who are short of money for maintenance, but who are very passionate about their playing... perhaps this is because saxes are easier to play, for the player who cannot afford lessons or the time & application to master the added diffuculties of other instruments.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-12-27 23:17
Hi Gordon,
An interesting and informative perspective on tenon, corks, and grease.
However, I'll not, as we say in the US, touch
"The sax seems to attract more players who are short of money for maintenance, but who are very passionate about their playing... perhaps this is because saxes are easier to play, for the player who cannot afford lessons or the time & application to master the added diffuculties of other instruments."
with a ten foot pole.
HRL (a doubler)
Post Edited (2003-12-27 23:18)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-28 00:34
I wouldn't either. Did I write that? I believe it, but here is perhaps a dangerous place to write it.
Gordon - doubler.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-12-28 02:05
Gordon,
Looks like your signature. Yeah, fools rush in where angels ....... :-).
HRL
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-28 18:23
Yes, Gordon, thanks for your usual good information especially about the reverse taper thing...which I never realized. It is reported that during gigs Sidney Bechet's soprano sax got sharper as the evening wore on and I suspect this is because the mouthpiece gradually got pushed in further.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-28 22:10
"It is reported that during gigs Sidney Bechet's soprano sax got sharper as the evening wore on and I suspect this is because the mouthpiece gradually got pushed in further."
Possibly the room just got warmer. The pitch is much affected by the temperature of the air within the instrument.
Some players adjust for this as the evening progresses; others just don't.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-29 13:37
Agreed,Gordon, just happened to me Christmas eve. I started to pull out my bbl and first chair said , "don't bother, everyone's sharp". BobD
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Author: GilliganGirl
Date: 2003-12-29 20:08
This sounds ridiculous, but try sticking it in the freezer for a while. The dry cold helps the wood contract. I've done it before and it worked with no harm to the body.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-30 04:09
It also sounds a good way to risk splitting the body, especially if the timber adjacent to the bore is damp, and that dampness expands as it freezes!
BTW, it has already been established that the clarinet in question is plastic...
And that it has been removed.
Post Edited (2003-12-30 04:10)
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