 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jstthunder88
Date: 2003-12-21 01:45
I am a Bb Clarinet player and I ranked high up there in region (that's as far as we've gone so far). In our region you can try out on 5 different clarinets, Bb soprano, most popular by far, like over 150 tried out. Bass Clarinet, another popular group. and then the other 3, Eb Soprano, alto and Contraalto. I dunno... to me, it seems like if you try out on one of the others, if your good, your in all state no matter what.. where as if u try out on Bb you have a lot more competition thus lessening your chance to make it to state.. what do yall think about this?
and also, what do colleges look at, just the fact that you made all-state, or the fact that u made it on a more competitive instrument instead of the others?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-12-21 01:48
jstthunder88 wrote:
> and also, what do colleges look at, just the fact that you made
> all-state, or the fact that u made it on a more competitive
> instrument instead of the others?
If it's a good conservatory, they look at how well you currently play and evaluate your potential. Whether or not you made (all-state, regional, etc.) doesn't really play into the actual decision.
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2003-12-21 18:13
Last year I was first chair in Illinois. It seemed to me that the state schools were impressed. I think that the better schools care about how you play at your audition, they don't care about what chair you got in some festival. Something that did catch most colleges attention was the fact that I had played in the Chicago Youth Symphony. If there is a top notch youth symphony around you area it would probably make a bigger difference. Especially in playing, if it wasn't for Chicago youth concert and symphony orchestras I wouldn't be nearly as "with it" as I am at the current moment.
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Author: Luke
Date: 2003-12-21 22:45
Most colleges don't care about what ensembles you've been in unless it was something truly amazing. Most people in all-state bands (not to insult anyone) are pretty much just ensemble musicians and probably can't gig/improvise/jam with other people. For that reason, I'd be tempted to say "Don't mess around with band/orchestral ensembles, go out and get some real on-the-scene music experience".
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-12-21 23:48
You will find that the majority of serious clarinetists who decide to persue performance in college, whether in a university or conservatory setting, have made an All State band or orchestra at one time during their high school career. It is fairly common among the elite players and is basically a non-issue as far as college admittance is concerned.
I have had students both make All State and not make All State. Both types of students have been accepted into high quality undergraduate music programs.
For various personal reasons, some students have even opted not to participate in their own high school music program, due to the weakness of either the teacher or the program itself.
None of the above have had any appreciable bearing on their admittance to a college or university music program.
There are many other more important factors which first come into play when an admission panel decides on who they will accept...GBK
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2003-12-22 01:14
I interview high school seniors as an alumni rep for an Ivy League school. Students are rated in four distinct categories from 1 to 5: Academic, Extracurricular, Personal, and Overall. The standard for getting a 1 in the "Extracurricular" category is "Top leader; state or national recognition".
Notably, this school noes not have a music performance major. I suspect that a real music school would pay attention to what instrument a student played in all-state.
Ken Abbott
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Author: Lisa
Date: 2003-12-22 03:15
I totally agree that universitieswould put more weight on an applicant's actual audition over any festival experience.
There are, of course, many other variables to consider here.
1. Is it more prestigious to make States in say, Rhode Island or Virginia? Students in both states have bragging rights to being members of an All-State ensemble, regardless of the fact that there is a huge popluation difference!
2. Is it more prestigious to make States on Bb or alto clarinet in a given state? Again, the bragging rights are now comparable, (same state) but as you implied, the less popular instruments offer less competition.
3. Is it more prestigious to make State Band or State Orchestra? I don't pretend to know how every state works their festivals, but I think they may be separate entities. The band would definitely have more clarinets than the orchestra.
4. You would have already qualified to States if you were from Pennsylvania, maybe other states too. Achieving first chair in your region (for Bb clarinet) is your ticket to states. Now in Maryland, where I live, students audition right for States, like you do. (I'm curious as to where you live.) I had to go through the process of auditions for Districts, then chairs at districts and regionals to qualify for states. Long ago, County band used to be a prerequisite for Districts. Now any schmuck in PA can be nominated by their director for county band. Anyway, it's hard for me to compare my situation of making States to yours, as I had to prove myself superior in 3 successive auditions, while you (and Marylanders, and probably other smaller states) only have to shine in one audition, directly to states.
5. Where does All-East fit into perspective success at the University level? Sorry, but again I'm in the eastern part of the country, and I don't know how many clumps of states combine to form multi-state ensembles. For us (way back when), you automatically made All-East if you made States as a sophomore or junior, since it was held the following school year. They also only had it every other year, making it out of reach for some people.
Theoretically, you can be a decent (not great) underclassman player on 3rd part, make States and All-East, and be an inferior player to the kid who missed States by getting 2nd chair up on 1st part. (Again, Pennsylvania-type example).
Once you get to college, your wind ensemble may need to convert Bb clarinetists to cover the other clarinet parts you mentioned. It happens. It would be preferable if people had the prior experience on another clarinet size, but they make the assignments based on what they need at the time.
Oh yeah, keep in mind the scenario of someone auditioning for a music program and having either a bad audition, or being a mediocre player to begin with. And the judges of the audition are sitting there thinking, "THIS person actually made ALL-STATE???" Think about it.
Finally, at my college, some (not all) of the music education majors weren't really superstars on their primary instrument. After receiving their degree, they went on to become band directors or general music teachers in school districts, and never did have the motivation to become as good a player as those performance majors.
Post Edited (2003-12-25 23:33)
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Author: lyn
Date: 2003-12-22 13:14
After you graduate from high school, depending on where you go, it's not "prestigious" to even mention Districts, Regionals, All-States, etc. LOL No one cares how you played on a given day. What can you do Now? Who did you study with? Those are more important to know.
If you go to a state school, beware, applied music is not taken seriously, they are talking about cutting credits back again in PA. They just want to crank out the bandos.....
~L
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-12-22 14:16
I had more fun at All-State than just about anything. You get to meet and play with other good people and play with a group that has people who can flat out play on every part.
Go for what you can take away with you. The memories last forever. As for college, I agree that the most difference it can make is maybe 1%.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-12-22 20:54
>>If you go to a state school, beware, applied music is not taken seriously, they are talking about cutting credits back again in PA. They just want to crank out the bandos.....<<
Thankfully, this is not true for all state schools.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2003-12-23 02:48
I hear a lot about it being mentioned "how one played that day". I think if ones playing cannot consistently high everyday then there is a reason why a person who played well on that day and consistently well on other days would be a better musician.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2003-12-24 03:29
All State doesn't matter at all on your college application. For music schools, they want to hear you play (and, as you know, that doesn't necessarily have much to do with your ability to get into All-State). For academic schools, they want you to show commitment, and there are plenty of other ways to do that besides All-State. I'm now 2nd chair in the orchestra of a top liberal arts school and no on cares that I never played in New York All-State.
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Author: OboeAtHeart
Date: 2003-12-25 16:49
Hey guys.
I made Allstate as well, but I live in Florida. I'm ranking 3rd part as a Froshie in HS, so I guess I'm doing alright. Besides the point.
I made it on Eb clarinet as well, and I don't have much ensamble experiance. Is there anything I need to do/take care of before I start playing with groups? I'm pretty well in tune (gasp) with the small group I've played with at my church. I've only played Eb for about eight months, but the only ensamble practice I've had is with an honour band at FSU for 2 weeks.
My eefer's surprisingly reliable in pitch, but the upper altissimo is just something I tend to avoid at all possible times.
I've also found that I'm pretty much in tune for the most part, but I'm just too LOUD all the time. Is there any way I could quiet down the instrument or am I just stuck sticking out all the time?
Thanks.
-Jen.
*~"The clarinet, though appropriate to the expression of the most poetic ideas and sentiments, is really an epic instrument- the voice of heroic love."~*
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Author: SVSorna05
Date: 2003-12-25 21:02
I'm tending to agree with most posters here on this thread that it doesn't really matter past high school. seeing u are from Houston, I from San Antonio, I think Texas is probably one of the hardest states to compete in for All State, unlike the small states "one audition" program we have like four different ones if you make it through all that then I'd have to say chances are you're pretty good if you can cut the mustard all four times. but think about all the great musicians that happened to have bad days on one of these auditions. Its quite an accomplishment to make all state in Texas I don't really know for other states, but after high school I can't see it making a whole lot of difference. Best of luck in January
-Dain-
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Author: clarinetfreek
Date: 2003-12-27 16:36
I'm from Texas as well. I live in Plano (close to Dallas), and I happen to be in one of the toughest regions in the state (Region 24, for those of you who are familiar). It's really unfair that so many good players get cut from our region... but past All-Staters have told me that once they get to the Area or State levels, there are so many players who would only have been mediocre players in our region. I guess there really isn't any other way to organize the auditions, though.
Is there anything like All-East down here in Texas? Just wondering...
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Author: Luke
Date: 2003-12-27 20:37
Pennsylvania's All-State system has been seriously messed up by the PMEA. At the top of the ladder is All-State, yunz know that. To get to audition for all-state, you have to successfully get into Region Band. To get to audition for Region Band, you have to manage to bribe your way into District Band. Getting into district band completely depends on your band director's opinion of you as a player and a person. There's no audition. Every school is guaranteed at least one person in districts (the best player in the hs, theoretically), after that it's totally up to chance. Let's say they take 6 alto saxophones. If 6 band directors put an alto-saxophonist at the top of their list (even if the players are TERRIBLE), then all other saxophones are S.O.L, even if they are far better than the ones who got picked. No all-state for them (terrible if there's a hs with many good sax players).
Can't we just have open auditions for All-State instead of this screwed up, roundabout, luck-of-the-draw system?
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Author: lyn
Date: 2003-12-27 22:15
Um, Luke - that's not entirely correct about PA's Districts/PMEA/AllState....I don't know what District you are in, but in the ones where I teach and have taught, there IS an audition. As a matter of fact, there are Three auditions. I teach students in both District 12 and District 7, and I taught in Philadelphia and District 11 for a dozen years before that. What District are you in??
Your District's way of "selection" is not set up by the PMEA. It was set up by the Band Directors in Your District. They make up Committees and they CAN change these rules if they want. I know District 2 does this, there might be 1-2 others. These are mostly for schools where the schools are spread out and there wouldn't be enough people in a given county or even two or three to *make* a real District band. The Lancaster District (District 7) has 8 counties!!! But they have auditions, because that is what their committees decided years ago.
The other idea behind it is that if students from a rural school had to audition against kids from, say, the Philadelphia District (District 12) your school might not get Any chance at getting someone into All-State, let alone Districts. They set it up so you don't have to audition against people like the powerhouse schools from down here, so that schools from way out in the country or the mountains actually have a chance to get students in. Do you want to audition against North Hills kids?? That's what some rural schools would be up against.
As far as the Districts that "select" their players - the number or percentage of kids accepted from your school is also determined by the 1) amount of students in your school/program, 2) the amount of students they can fit on the stage at the Host's school, and 3) what school had what instrumentation in the band last year (which rotates).
It might not hurt to make an effort to get along with the band director...... either that, or organize a petition for the directors to hold auditions. If nothing else, auditions by tape. If that many students feel the procedure is unfair, you need to do something pro-active about it. If you just sit around complaining, it will never change.
~L
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-12-29 13:55
The director of bands where I went to grad school (I was his assistant) does indeed look at things like All-State when recruiting students. We aren't Oberlin or Eastman or anything, but to say it isn't important is not correct.
I am many years from high school but can honestly say my three years in All State Band were among the most fun I had in music. Most especially the year I sat first chair and John Paynter was our director. We did a chamber piece for woodwinds and as principal I got to play in it. Pretty exciting stuff when you are sixteen.
I auditioned on bass clarinet and would say that about 1 in 10 of us who auditioned got in. Don't know wha the percentage for the other clarinets was. I have always been teased that it is easier getting in on bass than soprano, probably true as there are so many more sopranos.
Which instrument are you best on? Just because you play soprano doesn't mean you are going to be good on the other clarinets overnight.
If you want to write to me on my email go ahead. I am curious about the selection process in your particualr state. I know it varies quite a lot. Whan I was in school you auditioned in person. I would imagine most are done with tapes and cds these days.
Jean
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2003-12-30 02:02
All state or all nation groups(I did both) are not important for getting into college. They can provide young players some extra experience before going on to the next level and they do provide some perspective on where you compare to other kids auditioning for colleges.
Overall they are a great thing...just make sure you have fun and pay attention to the other clarinet players you hear and meet.
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