 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-12-18 13:49
Do you find you play better when you feel you're in a leadership role and you've been accepted by your peers?
About a month ago my chamber orchestra played its fall concert. The wind section is pretty small, all of us are amateurs, and we get along well. Both us clarinetists act as co-principals, but for this concert I assumed the majority of the solo work (Schubert 3 was the main work we did). It wasn't particularly tough, but it required a lot of attention to tone quality and proper blending. I felt I rose to the occasion quite well and was happy with the performance, and some comments I received afterward seemed to confirm that I played nicely. It's just a fun group to play with, and I'm sure that helps with how we perform.
Two nights ago I played a concert with my local wind symphony. This group is mostly band directors and music teachers, and I'm one of the few amateurs in the group. Now I stress I've always been treated with courtesy and I'm certainly not down on the group, nor do I have any desir e to quit. But I'm definitely an odd guy out because I'm not one of "them" and spend our breaks diddling with my reeds and whatnot instead of chatting with people. And sometimes I just have the darndest trouble with the music. It's not tough stuff, but d u ring rehearsals I sometimes tense up and flub stuff that I can usually knock off without thinking. It happened a couple of times at the concert as well. I've never had stage fright in my life, but something about this group just bunges me up a little.
I hope I don't sound whiny because I mean this as a legitimate question -- does the overall "good vibe" you get from an ensemble have an effect on your playing? And if you have a bad vibe, what do you do to combat it?
I guess this is directed more to w ard amateur players who are in it just for fun and don't necessarily have to "lump it" like you pros do. But pro comments are welcome as well.n
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2003-12-18 14:08)
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Author: Burt
Date: 2003-12-18 14:03
Absolutely.
That's why I'm totally relaxed in community band concerts, a bit tense in juries, and quite tense in auditions, especially for a group that I'm not quite good enough for.
I find that any effort spent thinking about how others will judge me is effort I can't spend on the technical or musical aspects of the composition.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-18 14:16
Oh definitely. Your mood and level of comfortability in a situation has an impact on your playing. Have you ever noticed that a particular piece that you really enjoy playing always ends up better than one you don't enjoy to play? And you yourself noticed that the more comfortable you are with your peers the better you play.
I think one of the things that makes a professional a professional is that they can set aside any moods, feelings, etc. in order to concentrate and play the music to the best that they know how. I can't do that yet. I'm still too nervous in juries and concerts to do as well as when I practice in my room, but I'm working on it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-12-18 14:25
You've both mentioned juries. I should stress that I'm not referring to situations where you've got something riding on the outcome -- a grade, a position in the orchestra, those kinds of things. Just situations where the only thing at stake is how much y ou're enjoying what you're doing.
Of course, your comments apply to those situations as well, and I thank you. I just wanted to clarify for others who may comment..
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2003-12-18 14:34)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-12-18 18:36
I don't agree that the pros just "lump it" because they're pros. Many guest performance pros have their own core people whom they work well with. They can afford to ignore the rest. As amateurs, we don't have that luxury.
In my opinion, Ralph, if you're getting bad vibes from this bunch it's time to check out another group. I've seen the result and felt the tensions that cutting remarks and ill feelings, both overt and covert, can do to an otherwise very good bunch of community band players. The band, by mutual disagreement, eventually 'dis-banded'....
I don't find your remarks whiny at all. You feel bad vibes. I agree that the spirit of a group, any group, musical or other, will have an effect one way or the other on its performance(functionality) -- and yours as an aside. If folks aren't getting along well, and it doesn't mean necessarily a raging battle, off stage the tension will be reflected in their playing on stage and it's prudent that you to stay out of the line of fire.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-12-18 20:21
Your self confidence affects how well you do most anything -- music, sports, whatever. Usually, the less anxious and more relaxed you are, the better you will do. (Ever hear of athletes trying to "psych-out" the competition? They're trying to gain an advantage by eroding the opponent's self-confidence.)
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Author: Brad
Date: 2003-12-18 20:46
It sounds to me that you feel you don't fit in with the other players in the band. I know when I get that feeling I become more critical about my own playing and beat myself up a bit for even small mistakes. One way I found that works for me to alieviate this problem is to try and connect with others in the group. Maybe instead of fiddling with reeds during the break, try and start a conversation with someone in the group. Maybe by asking for help with a difficult passage, or asking someone about their hardware. I find everyone seems to like to talk about themselves. Bottom line is that if you feel a little more connected to some other musicians in the group you may start to generate some of those "good vibes" you mention and begin to relax.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-12-18 21:21
Brad,
Right, I don't feel like I'm a good fit socially with these folks. But I'm there for the music, not for the social scene, so I'll gladly stick with it. I do have plenty of good friends in my "other" world.
I admit I'm fairly quiet by nature (if I ever meet any of you at a Clarinetfest you may notice I'll listen a lot more than I'll talk), but I'm not shy about striking up a chat. And yes, I've tried to strike up conversations here and there. They just seem to fall flat. One memorable one last season went like this:
Me: "Is that a Pyne barrel?"
Other player: "Bay."
Me: "And is that a Bonade ligature?"
Other: "Bay." Then she turned to the person next to her and talked about band director stuff. Maybe I wasn't up enough on equipment recognition to warrant a real conversation.
I won't bore you with any more anecdotes, but there have been some nice moments as well. Still, the odd-man-out feeling has been noticeable enough that it might be affecting my playing. When my wife noticed at a concert last season that nobody seemed to chat much with me, it kinda got into my head, and now I wonder if it's showing itself in a way that will be unacceptable if it continues. Bottom line is that I don't want to be a musical liability to the group.t
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-12-18 21:49
Ralph --
Listen to your wife. Is musical snobbery acceptable to you?
- ron b -
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-12-18 22:38
Membership in any group is a complicated matter, whether it is in your job environment or in an after-hours activity, such as music (for us amateurs). We all like to fit in, both socially and skillwise. For me, the worst situation is one where I feel that I am way ahead of most other members of the band/orchestra in terms of skill. Such a situation leaves me very frustrated and doesn't give me any incentive to improve! I have left a big band before for this very reason. Of course, it may be equally difficult when everyone else is way above you skillwise and you have a very tough time keeping up. I haven't experienced that yet, not because I am that good but because I have a tendency to avoid that situation (for fear of rejection?). I am not sure that that is smart because it would give me that extra incentive to try harder and get to a higher level. How much of this facet is playing a role in your unease, Ralph?
The social thing is a whole different matter! Some groups just click better than others. And each of us have a different pattern of bevavior. It helps to be more of an extrovert and to not take things (or yourselves) too seriously. The advice here is to just "hang loose". But that's easier said than done!
Good luck, Ralph.
Henry
Post Edited (2003-12-18 22:42)
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-12-19 02:47
This thread provoked a couple of thoughts. I'll get the easy one out of the way first.
I wholeheartedly agree with what Brad was getting at. If you can develop a rapport with those in your group your acceptance isn't as much performance-based as when your value is only determined by how well you contribute.
I also had a very recent experience (two weeks ago) that was somewhat (understatement) disturbing. I was in a choir that was comprised of members from several churches that performed Handel's Messiah. I love singing this sort of music. As is typical of me I began to build a rapport with those I sang near in rehersal. I hit it off well in particular with this one guy. Musically we were very well matched and our voices and musicality complemented each other very well; one of those synergy things. The two of us pretty much carried the tenor section. At our last dress rehearsal he made a pass at me. Come to find out my... how do I say this?... cohort?... was gay. I was unnerved to say the least. I couldn't concentrate. I couldn't sing. I was useless to the choir after that.
So I guess my point is, "does the overall "good vibe" you get from an ensemble have an effect on your playing?" HELL YES!!
Bob Schwab
"Men are God's methods. While men look for better methods, God looks for better men." E.M. Bounds
Post Edited (2003-12-19 03:07)
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-12-19 06:02
90% of its half mental, or some such Yogi Berra saying
- oh yeah good vibes make for better playing for most of us.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-12-19 18:09
Conductors with little personality or an inability to communicate clearly usually end up with a crappy sound...its all about the things that can't be measured sometimes...
David Dow
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