 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-12-14 21:43
Can anyone suggest a source for Hassidic or Cantorial-styled tunes for two parts in the same key (preferably for two clarinets, but that's asking a lot) with a Christmas connotation. This is something I need to acquire within a few days, if possible :\
I'm not well-versed in this style, but I think it is distinguished from Klezmer in some ways.
The following is a description from a Jewish Music web site:
"Niggunim is a style of vocal tunes that have been handed down through generations in Hassidic circles. Ranging from simple melodies akin to folk songs, to more complex arrangements sometimes accompanied by a musical backdrop, niggunim traditionally was a way of communicating Jewish stories and legends.
Chassidic Niggunim should not be confused with cantorial music, which are the liturgical melodies heard in the synagogue to accompany prayer. The cantor (known also as a chazzan) leads the prayers, chanting them, usually in Hebrew, to specific melodies."
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2003-12-14 22:06
Well maybe it isn't as far fetched as you think. I ran across this group in a magazine the other day. It was kind of a lighthearted article about how Christmas day is a drag for Jewish people and they wanted to do something fun. So this is some sort of Nutcracker Suite with a Jewish / Klezmer twist. I have not heard it and can not vouch for it in any way. It did look interesting / wierd.
http://www.klezmershack.com/bands/shirim/nutcracker/shirim.nutcracker.html
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-12-14 22:27
Actually Shirim's Nutcracker is _excellent_. I used to have the cd, but the ex got it in the divorce since he knows their former tuba player.
I have a friend who used to play in a Klezmer band, and when her group was hired to play at the local children's museum, they were told they'd have to do an arrangement of a tune in their style. The other groups were doing the same tune in their respective styles. It was holiday season, and when she was told the tune was Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, she had to point out the irony to the person who hired them. So they played her Klez arrangement of Rudy...LOL!
Katrina
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-12-14 22:27
Lic...
No...no kidding...
Christian churches often try to tie our Jewish religious roots through Jewish sounding music...which is what we are trying to do. Many of our carols and hymns have a very Jewish sound..."O Come O Come Immanuel" has a bit of that "sound" using appropriate intervals (don't know what those intervals that lead to the "Jewish sound" are called, however. Perhaps someone can educate me.)
We are looking for something authentic, but off the beaten path.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
Post Edited (2003-12-14 22:29)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-12-14 22:35
Liquorice said:
> Jewish music for Christmas? You are joking right???
Nothing says Chanukah better than the family lighting the Menorah candles to the Hebraic strains of "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing"
 ...GBK
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-12-14 22:44
GBK...
Yes! That's the general idea.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-12-14 22:45
Jerry- the melody of "O Come O Come Immanuel" is in the Aeolian mode... not that that helps your search much! Just though you might be interested.
Playing music to celebrate the birth of someone, in the style of the people who crucified him is quite ironic! But like Gandhi said "all religions are true!"
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-12-14 22:53
Lic...
Not as ironic as it might appear.. Don't forget...the whole culture was Jewish, including his followers as well as himself!
Thanks for the "Aeolian mode" tip. Is that "mode" characteristic of Hassidic music, or just to stuff that sounds like "O Come O Come Immanuel?"
Jerry
The Villages, FL
Post Edited (2003-12-14 22:54)
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-12-14 22:56
GBK,
Is that animated signature a Christmas tree or a burning bush?? Now I for one thought the burning bush went with with Exodus and Pesach...er Passover....isn't that when Moses was found working with reed rushes?
Actually Chas. Chedeville was from a family of Hasidic Cantors, and changed his name from Chedofowitz to avoid French antisemitism. His father is responsible for the now legendary Chedofowitz Dreydl, which was later copied by the Minnie and Sid's sons, the Kasperski boys.
your turn.....
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-12-14 23:19
A little known fact is that the Buffet clarinet is named for its inventor, Rabbi Reuven David Ben-Buffet. It was first used during the high holy days which began on the 13th day of Kislev.
However, over the past 5764 years the name of the clarinet has been conveniently shortened to the R(abbi)-13 ...GBK
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-12-14 23:26
Actually, GBK, the original designation was BAR/13 as in Bar Mitzvah
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-12-14 23:55
GBK, to add to your "confusion" when I was much younger my Brit friends used to sing "Hark the Herald Angels Sing. Wally Simpson Stole Our King"!
Bob A
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-12-15 00:04
Hi CPW:
I didn't think anyone remembered thay silly stunt of mine years ago!
"Now I for one thought the burning bush went with with Exodus and Pesach...er Passover....isn't that when Moses was found working with reed rushes?"
To all: Have a Happy Christmas and a very Merry Chanukah!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-12-15 10:00
Jesus was crucified by the Romans! The comment above, "Playing music to celebrate the birth of someone, in the style of the people who crucified him is quite ironic!" , is offensive to many of us out there. This precept was, in fact, abandoned by the Roman Catholic church after Vatican II. Although mediaeval in origin it was also part of Nazi propaganda. Crucifixion was a Roman form of execution, it was not and is not practised by Jews. This precept has been used as a justification for anti-semitism on too many occasions.
A highly distasteful, erroneous and inflammatory comment. I certainly hope that this is not the current opinion of church going Christians in the year 2003. It is factually and historically incorrect and if it is being peddled by sections of the Christian churches then much of the dialogue between religions has been a waste of time. Liquorice, I suggest you seek some sort of guidance before posting, on a public forum, this sort of anti-semetic rubbish.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-12-15 11:23
[ This thread has now gone from light humor to religious debate and I urge all to not let it go any further or this thread will be closed - GBK ]
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-12-15 14:04
Jerry,
Why go for "Jewish sounding" when you can play the real thing? There probably isn't a whole lot of credible material like you describe out there that is anything more than a traditional Xmas tune rendered in the Phrygian mode. Don't be afraid to play something seasonal that is "real" Hanukkah music like "Rock of Ages". The content is entirely compatable with the Christmas canon. You might also look around for some settings of the Psalms, which also stand in both camps.
And of course, you can throw in seasonal favorites written by Jewish composers (Irving Berlin, for one).
M.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2003-12-15 18:47
If you have a certain Christmas CD known as "Blame it on Christmas," you are familiar with "Deck the Halls with Loaves of Challah" and such things.
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-12-16 02:53
I recently played clarinet on a piece entitled Torah, Orah. It was for a girls choir....two parts, I believe. Great klezmer style clarinet part. We played it for a holiday concert. It got the most applause of all the pieces performed. And the girls..ages 9-14 loved it. A woman who I did not know came up to me afterwards and said, "I had no idea the clarinet could be so much fun."
The director asked me to play as she knows I am uninhibited. So I got to be a ham on a Jewish piece of music. How's that for an oxymoron?
Happy Holidays,
Jean
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-12-16 04:05
LOL @ Jean - must try and figure out the Mrs. Lincoln quote - obviously have to be American to get it?
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2003-12-16 04:46
Diz,
Being American helps on that one;
Pres. Lincoln was assisinated in Ford's Theater in Washington DC during a play in 1865.
Believe it or not,the actual chair in which he was seated is in the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, and is not more than 100 yards from the Lincoln Limo in which JFK was killed, and the newer Lincoln that Reagan was pushed into when he was shot.
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-12-16 20:14
thanks for the American History lesson ... makes Jean's comment even more amusing.
We had a Prime Minister go missing in 1967 on a Victorian beach (near Melbourne) and his body was never recovered: Harold Holt ... he was the Prime Minister that committed Australian troops to Vietnam (mongrel). Anyways ... in honour of this inauspicious event ... there is a public swimming pool named the Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Pool (or something like that). Kind of amusing considering he went missing during a swim at a beach ... his body was never recovered.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-12-17 12:54
Mark Pinner-
Firstly, let me apologise to you, and anyone else that I may have offended by my comment. My posting wasn't intended to have been anti-semetic, but in re-reading it, I can see that it could be interpreted that way. I am not religious. I realise that my comment was completely erroneous, and it just shows my ignorance. I am really VERY sorry that my stupidity has caused offence, and will certainly refrain from making any such comments in future.
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