 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-13 02:47
I'm supposed to perform the concertino this upcoming tuesday for lesson evaluations. The head piano teacher of our school is playing the piano part for me (I guess it's a hard piano part) and is doing very well for sightreading it. However the three times I've ran it through with him, the tempos have been very slow. The tempo for the first part is great. Dead on. Then it drops to about 70 beats per second for the initial theme. Then about 60 and it seems to remain around there or maybe even SLOWER for all the parts that are supposed to be fast and exciting.
And I'm finding myself going nuts trying to keep my fingers that slow. I've practiced it for so long to get it at a 'normal' tempo and now it just seems to drag along. I did a runthrough at his master class where the class was nice enough to compliment me on my tone and how I was able to really get the feeling of the dark parts versus the lighter more upbeat parts and all I could think was, "Yeah. You should hear how much of a difference it'd make if I was actually ALLOWED to play it upbeat and peppy!"
Is it wrong for me to suggest to the piano player to please keep the tempo faster? Particularly at those exciting parts? I find myself getting ahead and staying constantly on the edge. I even tried to make a slight increase in speed during playing hoping he would catch up but by the time we started to make progress it was back to a part he played alone and he slipped back into a slower speed.
Also, do you think I can accomplish getting him to speed up and hopefully remember to go a little faster by Tuesday? Is it worth even asking or should I clench my jaw and just accept that it's gonna have to lose the little sizzle I could give to it?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetmajr
Date: 2003-12-13 03:55
Here are a few questions first:
Are you at a music school/ conservatory/ university/ college? Your lesson evaluation sounds a little bit like what some people call "juries". Where i'm at, it counts as a small part of your grade, but its true purpose is to give you feedback for yourself as a clarinetist and as a musician. Therefore, if you feel this accompanist is impeding you or restricting you in some way musically, I would say something to him immediately!
Are you paying him? If so, you have a right to discuss what you would like to see happen with the tempos. A good accompanist usually can follow the soloist but since he is not as perceptive as you would like, speak up. Is he unfamiliar with the piece? Maybe that is why he is going so slowly... or maybe there are tempos written in that are incorrect... or maybe he has played it before with a less experienced clarinettist who liked the slower tempos and now he thinks that this is just how the piece is played.
The funny thing with accompanists, even those with a lot of experience, is that some can be highly compatible with you and some not at all. I've had two so far this year; one i really liked and the other was just okay. They were both the same level, but one gave me helpful comments and we really played well together as an ensemble. The other; we played alright together but it just didn't "feel" as together. So maybe you need to look around a little more and find someone who you are more comfortable working with.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-13 04:02
Not a music school nor conservatory. It is actually a two year junior college with a music program. Yes it is a "jury", but I wasn't sure if other colleges called it that too. I do now![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) . No I'm not paying him, he is simply the only piano player in the school system that is capable of playing the piece. I'm not sure how familiar he is with it, but I do hear him stumble across certain parts and audibly slow down (whether unconsciously or not) at certain parts. I attribute this to (A) unfamiliarity, (B) not enough time to practice and perfect it and possibly (C) hitting the bottle before school everyday. He does always have that rosy glow in his cheeks and tend to talk and walk slowly . . . Just kidding. He does like to drink and talk about drinking though!
I guess I should at least try. Hopefully Monday's run through before Tuesday's concert will go well and, if he marks his music, maybe he'll be able to remember to keep it up come time for my jury. I do feel like he's holding me back. Not his intent of course, but I can and do play it faster while rehearsing and I think it sounds better with a quicker tempo.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-12-13 05:09
The first thing I'd do is ask the accompanist, "Could you take it up a bit?" and snap a tempo. They'll probably be more than happy to oblige. As it is, you've given implicit approval of the tempo they're playing. Your uneasiness at this tempo has probably given them the impression that you don't know the music too well, which may subconsciously make them slow down a bit more.
A key thing to remember when working with other people, especially people who are doing you a favor (even if they're being paid, I still consider accompanying a favor), is to treat them with respect.
They are probably even looking to you for cues. The worst thing you can do when playing with an accompanist (aside from turning your back to the audience) is to ignore them. Give them a passing glance or a nudge with your clarinet, and they're likely to follow. Remember that you are both making music together. Communicate.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-12-13 12:49
I've heard recordings of the Concertino done really fast and another that's done much slower. Of course fast is nice if you have years of playing experience behind you and you can pull it off. (So here I'm concentrating on your playing, not the pianist.) There are some nice tempo and mood contrasts in the piece that should be conveyed. However, in practice with the metronome, are you able to play all the runs perfectly even at the pace you prefer? Or do you feel more in control at 5 bpm slower? Your accompanist or teacher can help you by telling you how it sounds to an outside ear. Remember that the last allegro is marked at the same tempo throughout, but it starts easy and then picks up in difficulty nearer the end. So you need to pace yourself and be realistic.
That having been said, your accompanist should listen to you and follow your speed markings. But if he doesn't have the skill level, then he either learns the piece better, you slow down for him, or you hire another accompanist. There are some choices to be made. Yes, communicate. That could be hard with a person who likes the drink.
This piece is SO exciting when it's played well (and that doesn't mean at a frenzied pace, but controlled). So why spoil the enthusiasm by playing it at a snail's pace?
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-12-13 15:34
Alexi,
You are the soloist so you set the tempos. You should walk through the piece with your accompanist and indicate specific metronome markings for each section. That means that, if you haven't already done so, you need to go through the piece and figure these out on your own so that you can write them on the pianist's part. If the pianist can't play something at tempo, suggest ways he can simplify the accompaniment to make it easier to keep up. You should be able to play at the tempo you want... but it's up to you to make that happen.
On another matter, IMHO, your comments about your accompanist's ALLEGED drinking problem were totally gratuitous, unfounded, unfair (he is not on this forum to defend himself) and out-ot-place. They might even be libelous. Notice that Brenda has already picked up the cue and assumed it fits him. How would you like it if he made similar comments about you behind your back to the jury? You are old enough now to exercise some judgment when you are writing in a pubic forum. VERY immature. I am disappointed in you.
jnk
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-13 21:37
Quote:
(C) hitting the bottle before school everyday. He does always have that rosy glow in his cheeks and tend to talk and walk slowly . . . Just kidding. I stated I was just kidding. But for the record for those who didn't catch it. . .
for anyone else reading this, it was a joke. Whether he drinks or not I don't know but he jokes around about drinking so I figured I'd joke here. Don't think he's a drunk cause I no as much as any of you would know about that aspect of his life
Also, The tempo is not a "little" slower. Think of playing the entire concertino, at the tempo of the beginning. It's about that much of a difference. I know what I feel comfortable at, and wouldn't mind him being a little slower, but he's nearly HALF the speed that I was hoping.
For an example of the the tempo, if you are familiar with the piece, two sections before allegro, where it is a bunch of slur- two/tongue-two sixteenth note runs, my instructor has his copy marked at 112. I feel comfortable playing it at 100. The piano player is bringing me down to about 60. That's too dramatic a change and it doesn't really suit the piece and it's much less interesting at that tempo. And it's like that in other spots such as directly before it, at Allegro, and towards the end of the piece with the arpeggiated F-chords.
It's hard for me to work anything out with him because, as I said before, he's a professor there doing me a favor. As such, he takes time out of HIS schedule and really doesn't allow me time to make comments or go over parts. I show up, he accepts the music from me (doesn't take it to practice, has me hold onto it because he's not really concerned about his performance. After all, as he says, "It's YOUR jury.") and begins to play. Then when I'm done he packs up and leaves. It's not very hospitable or correct, but that's his personality being both a member of faculty and also that I'm not paying him so he's doing me a favor.
I'll try on Monday to mention it to him before I begin and hopefully he'll remember and hopefully even MARK tempos in the piece as a reminder come Tuesday morning.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-12-13 23:26
Let's drop the drinking thing now. I'm sure sfalexi knows better for next time.
sfalexi, you're between a rock & a hard place at the moment; if you would have brought it to his attention early on it might be correctable, but at this point you're probably not going to be able to change the tempo too much.
I would suggest next time to either find another student who is studying accompaniment or to pay for a professional accompanist. In a conservatory you'd have either a student or a professional to accompany you (it's part of the fees that are paid to the college) but I guess at your school you aren't paying those fees. Unfortunately a professional accompanist isn't going to be cheap ...
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-12-13 23:39
We don't get accompanists paid for at my university... they're not incredibly expensive though: $50-60 for a half-hour rehearsal and a jury.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-13 23:40
Yeah. Definitely between the rock and hard place. I had to give it to him because he's the best in the school. The other music professor I asked to help me said he wouldn't have been able to learn the part in time. This gentleman is pretty much sightreading it which is pretty good, but I have to try to bring the tempo changes to his attention. Even if he has to leave out certain intracacies and just play underlying chords, I hope he can just up it a bit. Otherwise it loses it's flash, won't be fun for the audience OR the performer (me) and it'll be another miserable performance to add the list ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
On ONE good note about this performance, I will have obtained a red bowtie by then so I think I'll look pretty snazzy with my tux and red bowtie Also, the fact that I'll be wearing a tie in the firstplace will put me leagues ahead as far as the fashion for all performers that day. The dress code is "black and white". Of which about half the students listen too.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2003-12-13 23:55)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-12-14 00:03
Tux for juries? Wow, you guys dress up. We generally go for nice pants and a dress shirt (or nice polo shirt). Are you sure a red bowtie won't come off as horribly tacky? (Pee Wee Herman comes to mind)
At your next practice, just ask "Could we take this part up a bit?" I'm sure he'll be happy to oblige. With accompanists, I've found that if they can't completely keep up they'll keep playing enough of the notes to get you by. I guess if you haven't been accompanied much before, it might be a bit intimidating to ask this, but it will probably be more comfortable for both of you.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-14 01:34
This is my second time being accompanied. And no, most people don't really dress up that much. But I prefer to look sharp. So you can bet my shoes will be spit-polished to a mirror shine (I'm a crazy guy who LOVES spit polishing his shoes), I'll have my shirt ironed and starched, and will definitely be wearing a tie.
Although as I'm thinking I might decide to dress down and wear just black pants with a dress button down shirt and a white tie. I'll decide on Monday what to wear.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetmajr
Date: 2003-12-14 05:38
Hey Alexi, you sound a lot like me! I (well i'm a girl so I can't wear a tux) always go all the way towards picking out something pretty nice to wear for juries! It always makes me feel better and gives me a little more confidence( ; And ironically enough, I worked on the concertino this semester, as it is one of those pieces that is often dismissed as "easy fluff" but is actually difficult to perform effectively and musically... my professor wanted me to feel completely comfortable just performing "musically" and not having to worry about a lot of other things, so he thought this piece would be good for my jury (we've worked on other stuff as well but i chose this). I think this piece has a lot of charm and joy...Playing something that really lets me be expressive and musical is helping me overcome my minor performance anxieties.
Unfortunately my university doesn't pay for accompanists but they did a few years ago. All the students here are kind of bummed that they have to pay for an accompanist (well, that is life!) Some even opt to not use one! This sort of things happens here but it isn't encouraged. Being broke is not fun... but not having an accomapanist for a jury? I can't imagine that being much fun either. I hope your situation works out though! Good luck
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-12-14 05:51
i assume that you're talking about the Concertino by Weber?
an excellent pianist can sight read this- a good pianist can play it well with little preparation.
or are you writing about another Concertino? maybe someone has recently composed a work called "the concertino" that i don't know about....
donald.....
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-14 06:03
Whoops. Von Weber is the one. Boy do I feel sheepish . . .
US Army Japan Band
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