 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2003-11-30 18:29
Attachment: bustedbarrel.jpg (41k)
Has anybody repaired, or had repaired, a tuning barrel for a Selmer Paris metal clarinet from the early 1930s?
The inner sleeve to my barrel, made of very thin metal, has sheared off at the point where it meets the mouthpiece receiver. (See attached picture.)
Is this repairable, and if so, at what cost?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-11-30 19:18
That looks like a really tough repair. My advice is to send the whole instrument to Walter Grabner (Clarinet Xpress -- a sponsor, and by coincidence currently shown in the banner ad at the top of this web page as "Brought to you this hour by..."). Walter may or may not be able to resolder the barrel. What he can do for sure is craft a custom barrel out of wood that will fit the instrument, play in tune, have a reverse taper and possibly sound better than the original. Oh yeah, and look really whacked on the metal clarinet. However, IMHO not half as whacked as putting in lamp fittings.
I have a Grabner barrel custom fit to one of my Silva Bets and use it all the time. Non-clarinet players don't notice the difference. Most think I am playing a skinny sax with an extra long mouthpiece.
I just don't think you are going to find a metal Selmer that is too damaged to fix but that has a good barrel. I think there were some Moennig brothers metal clarinets that were sold with barrels that looked like the Selmer barrel. Who knows if one would work right on the Selmer. It is possible that a non-adjustible barrel from a student metal clarinet would fit and work. The first metal Selmers did not have adjustible barrels. At least you can figure out the length and bore size to look for, if that's what you want to try.
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2003-12-01 03:10
Thanks, Jim. I was afraid of this.
I have a hunch that a saxophone or brass tech might find a way to grind out and re-sleeve it, but that's just a hunch. The Selmer needs a full restoration anyhow. Still, I will contact Walter and see if anything can be done.
Why they used such a thin, flimsy sleeve in an otherwise beautifully crafted instrument boggles me. The tuner wouldn't quite dial in all the way and was a bit out of alignment, so I gave it what I thought was just an eensy bit of "English" and r-r-rip! I've seen pop cans with stronger metal.
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2003-12-01 03:22
Steve Fowler.....Fowler Music.....in Virginia....forget the phone # and address
but you can do a google search, whatever......Fowler Music....Steve is the best......good luck
jg
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-12-01 05:03
Hi, Paul -
Interesting you should ask..."Is this repairable, and if so, at what cost?"
I talked, a few months ago, to a tech about a metal horn barrel he'd made some time ago. I think I posted something about it here a while back. In any case, the conversation ended with a statement something like, "...never again!"
Although the barrel would be expensive to duplicate, if the horn is as nice as you describe it might be worth it. It certainly won't play very well with what you have now ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Looking at the situation and considering it as though it were a personal matter, here's what I find: The metal, as you say, is pretty flimsy but if it belonged to a nice instrument like yours I'd do something about it for the sheer pleasure of doing it. Since I have the advantage of having the tools and material at hand my approach would be to carefully measure all its parts, pull some nickle silver sheets from my 'stash' and go to work. In other words, I'd work up a drawing with measurement specs, hone a few (metal lathe) cutting tools, find or make a mandrel or two and proceed. I doubt you or I would have satisfactory results restoring what you have so I'd start from scratch to make an accurate copy... only using heavier stock.
Maybe you could salvage the tenon cup part but not much else. If a different metal is needed for part of it, a trip to Blue Collar Supply (local metal supplier) should take care of that. So far, I estimate about 2 1/2 to 3 hours make-ready plus one hour travel time. Another two to three hours (- +) to set up, turn parts, silver solder, clean up and polish.
So, I'd be looking at the better part of a day to make up a nice duplicate barrel for a nice original horn. If I do the job myself it costs about twenty dollars(USD) for materials If someone else does the job add their hourly rate to that and you'll have a fair idea of cost - not cheap ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
The alternative, I suppose, is to scour the shops in your area and try to find a regular barrel that will fit (a long shot) or, as a longer shot, one like yours... which, of course, would be another 'flimsy' one.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2003-12-01 05:05)
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-12-01 05:38
Ron: One day I want to come watch you work. I think you need a web cam so all of us can watch.
Some metal clarinets, such as most Silver Kings, have thin sleeves because they go inside the bore. If they were thicker, they would reduce the bore size too much. However, I don't think this was the case with the Selmer. I suspect it was just to reduce weight. The Silva Bet barrels weigh a ton.
Walter can do a complete rebuild. Seriously, if you want to end up with a player, consider having him make a wooden barrel. Whatever you do, keep us posted.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-12-01 15:10
I'd try a flute repair shop. They do silver-soldering on thin metal all the time.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-12-01 16:03
If anyone's in desperate need of some new comedy routine material, come on over and watch me work. Hahaha. I'll have some extra cookies on hand just for Jim Lande. Meanwhile, the rest of us can observe Jim as he ROTFLHAO
My imaginary run-through is partly prior project experience, partly 'war story' material from the tech who built the barrel. They are surprisingly more complicated to fabricate than appears at first glance. I agree with your suggestion that a flute repairer, since they work with metal instruments all the time, would possibly have a keener 'feel' for doing the job.
Anyway... I wouldn't increase the metal guage *that* much, but I think a stronger join, where it broke, would be wise. I also like your idea of a wood barrel. My only objection would be, maybe, appearance. But playability should be a large part of the decision too. Lots to mull over here.
- ron b -
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-12-01 22:33
Paul,
I don't have my lathe up and running or the experince on it as of yet. However, I recommend two repairers that could tackle your situation. One is Eric Satterlee of Meridian Winds, 5921 Buttonwood Dr, Haslett MI 48840, ph 517-339-7333, email: bandrepair@attbi.com. The other is Wayne Tanabe of the BrassBow and can be reached at brassrx@aol.com.
jbutler
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-02 23:09
Please excuse me as I haven't studied all the responses. Tuning barrels in general are controversial items but attempting to make one for a metal clarinet has to be an exercise in long term futility. Why wouldn't one just make a set length barrel(from metal wood or whatever) and do the adjustment for pitch with the mouthpiece? Isn't this the way most metal clarinets.....and saxes......are tuned??
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2003-12-02 23:36
Some of us find ourselves playing in widely, or even wildly, varying temperature/humidity conditions. That's the reason I use a CLiCK barrel on my woodies. Besides, what's the big whoop about wanting to bring a wonderful old horn back to original spec?
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-12-03 01:32
One would have to look at it carefully but I suspect that it would not be difficult to fix for a skillful workman. One might consider making a thin ring of silver or nickel silver which could be soldered onto the right side piece, having an inner diameter which would hold the left side piece in place. The type of solder chosen would depend upon the original construction(hard, medium, light, or soft lead). Then the left hand piece could be soldered in place with a softer solder. Good luck!
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2003-12-03 06:05
Interesting. A range of responses from "piece of cake" to "impossible," some very kind referrals for help, plus one poster who pleads ignorance but seems convinced Selmer would never even have made a metal tuning barrel.
Well, I can't say that people didn't care about my predicament! Thanks, everybody. I'll let you know how it all comes out.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-03 06:20
Without seeing it, I can't see why it is not possible to remove the broken tube altogether, turn a replacement tube a little longer, and graft/solder it into each end, having turned a stepped receiver into the contraptionery at each end.
Quite quick - 1 to 1 1/2 hours with an accurate lathe.
Post Edited (2003-12-03 06:22)
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