 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-11-30 22:59
Attachment: clari-met-page1-print.jpg (716k)
A 1910 brochure for Penzel Muller metal clarinets states that the instruments are made out of Benedict Silver, heavily plated. Benedict Silver is described as being “…the nearest alloy to Sterling Silver -- and in quality practically its equal.” Much further down, the flyer states that the clarinet also is heavily plated.
Searching the web, I can find a Benedict Silver company operating between 1900 and 1930, but nothing that suggests that this is some specific alloy. My assumption is that this is marketing fluff and that the metal is mostly nickel and not unsimilar to the base metal used for most other pro metal clarinets.
Does anyone know anything else about Benedict Silver?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-11-30 23:08
I wouldn't know, but I can tell you that sterling silver flutes are often silver plated.
This is to cover the greying of the silver (absorption of atmospheric sulphur, etc) that has resulted during heating processes such as silver-soldering. When the plating wears through and exposes the grey look, the player (or technician) may keep polishing, trying to get rid of the grey look, and the area of grey keeps getting bigger.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-12-01 02:17
Many TKS Jim, for telling/showing about this PM, metal dbl-tube Clarionet, only $200 for an F B!! I looked in my Chem-Phy Handbooks under the many alloys. No Benedict, lots of German/nickel silver alloys of differing compositions, which I bet is what it is, "Benedict's composition". Also made a quickie patent search, didn't find anything. Will look in the big Webster and elsewhere in our library. I have a wood PM FB dating back into the 1920s [my first good cl!]. I'll get it out and see if the keys still shine, might be B's alloy !! Guess I could knick off a piece from a key and get a spectro analysis of comp. Doubt that its worthwhile, tho. Fun, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: paulwl
Date: 2003-12-01 02:59
The term "inner tube" caught my eye...My Armored Conn has a rubber inner tube, so I guess that makes it a tire! <:-/
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-12-01 05:25
Gordon: Fascinating. I have heard that the metal in the body is very important to the sound, so having silver on the inside makes sense. Still, having the plating wear through on a solid silver flute must be a real bummer. Do you know if they have to plate the keys on these flutes?
Don: Many thanks and no need to chip a key. I am sure that you are right. It it had silver in the body, they wouldn't have invented or borrowed the term. Some of the other statements in the flyer are palaver. Do you really think the shorter posts make the keys a lot stronger? Maybe, but big deal. I have seen a lot of metal clarinets and a lot of damage, but never a bent post. I look forward to whatever else you can dig up.
I think there are xray techniques that can check depth of plating. I wonder what else can be determined.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-01 06:24
"Do you know if they have to plate the keys on these flutes?"
Especially the keys, because it is these that have been subject to the most heat.
BTW a rough test for sterling silver or similar (or alunimium!) keys....
Heat one end of a key, say to water-sizzling temperature, and then withdraw it from the heat. If it is silver, then within a few seconds, the heat will have become pretty evenly distributed over the whole key, because of its excellent heat conduction. One sure knows about it when one holds a sliver key in the hand and heats the other end for soldering!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-12-01 15:22
German silver has no silver at all, and Benedict is probably the same. I'd say any "silver" that has a qualifier is not the real thing.
A single-tube metal clarinet has to have pretty long posts, to be as long as the standard length plus the thickness of a wood body. A double-tube instrument would have standard-length posts. Thus it's possible that the posts might be prone to bending if the instrument is dropped.
Cartier used to offer a frying pan made of sterling silver for $1,000 -- said to conduct heat even better than copper.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-12-01 16:18
Neat way to test, Gordon! The "hot potato" method? As I recall the heat transmissions of various metals, silver, yes, very rapid, copper, almost as rapid, nickel [I believe] like iron?, slower, zinc, not sure, so I'd guess that most nickel-silvers [Cu,Ni,Zn etc?] would be only "moderately fast", therefore, a distinguishing test of key metal! Perhaps related via the Periodic Table?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-01 23:38
Ken wrote:]
<<I'd say any "silver" that has a qualifier is not the real thing.>>
Not quite true. You forget "Sterling Silver', which by definition is at least 92.5% pure silver.
"Britannia silver" has a slightly higher silver content, 95.8%.
"Coin silver" is 80%.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-02 23:03
Trade names for alloys were among the earliest forms of marketing hype. One can only make sense of them by alloy composition. Surgical stainless is among the most flagrant examples.
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