 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Simon
Date: 2003-11-25 02:40
Can someone please tell me of what is Acker Bilk music style called?
Many thanks
Simon
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-25 03:17
I don't like his jazzy style. Too much vibrato and not a clean enough tone for me. But you have to look at it a few ways. He's making tons of money and has a following, so he's gotta be doing something right. Maybe not in my eyes, but in someone's.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-11-25 03:20
I'm one of the few loyal fans of AB on this board.
I think his sound and style are great.
a voice crying in the wilderness.f
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: ned
Date: 2003-11-25 03:35
" I don't like his jazzy style. Too much vibrato and not a clean enough tone for me."
Well he IS a jazz player you know.
What is a "clean" tone, by the way? Seems to be a lot of discussion about vibrato and the like, particularly when Acker's name pops up (quite frequently).
Have you heard of Sidney Bechet perhaps? Now.......there's a broad tone and "jazzy" style if ever there was one.
I actually liked AB in his early days, his heart was in the right place - he played in a nice New Orleans style - but nowdays he pumps out the commercial mainstream stuff.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-25 03:47
I didn't mean that I didn't like the fact he plays jazz, just that I don't like his style. As far as a "clean" tone, I know there's no accepted definition of "cleanliness", but as far as what I consider clean, I don't like it.
But as far as the original question goes in the post, he's a jazz musician. That's the style. (unless someone wants to get more specific with the specific TYPE of jazz he plays)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Simon
Date: 2003-11-25 03:51
Yes please, what is the specific Jazz style called that he plays.
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Author: ned
Date: 2003-11-25 04:25
"Why don't we all just stop the musical snobbery and accept him for what he does."
Well said, that man!
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-11-25 06:09
I used to play in a New Orleans style band in the late 1950s, and we all played like or wanted to play like Acker Bilk, or Monty Sunshine or Terry Lightfoot. I never had any money for records in those days, so it wasn't until later that I discovered jazz clarinetists that I much prefer such as Barney Bigard, Edmond Hall and (we all have our favorites) Hubert Rostaing. I still think Bilk was pretty good back in the traditional jazz days. I hated Stranger on the Shore -- but then I tend to dislike a lot of things that the masses like. Not snobbery, GBK. Just personal choice.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-25 11:47
GBK wrote:
> Why don't we all just stop the musical snobbery and accept him
> for what he does.
Oh, come now. Is it musical snobbery for me to think has the most gawd-awful, raucus sound ever to come out of a hollow tube? I have a couple of his albums and don't like anything I've heard by him.
It's not snobbery - his style and sound is so polarizing as to encourage such extreme reactions.
Millions of people love him & his band, so he can't be doing everything wrong, but I won't be buying any tickets to his concerts.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-25 12:07
Mark Charette wrote:
> Millions of people love him & his band, so he can't be doing
> everything wrong,
My point precisely.
> but I won't be buying any tickets to his
> concerts.
I won't either, but good or bad, in 1961 he put the clarinet back into the ears and mind of the masses and like Benny and Artie before him, inspired a new generation to take a second look at the clarinet.
As I certainly don't come home after a long day of playing or teaching and pop in an Acker Bilk CD, if by any chance I am out somewhere and hear something by him I certainly won't run screaming from the room either. I'll just smile, full well understanding what he is doing in his own way ...GBK
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-11-25 12:28
Some people like schmaltz on a bagel, too.
Doesn't mean it's good for you, or will widen your circle of influence.
*******
AB is playing constantly at the local mall pet shop, keeps the fish happy...
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Author: Donn
Date: 2003-11-25 12:58
Mr. Bilk may not possess the greatest sound in the world, but it sure beats most of the noise I avoid on radio these days. When I was active musically, we considered it bad form to criticize other musicians' playing. Could adversely affect their livelihood.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-11-25 13:08
Hi,
The clever (and most often working clarinetist/saxophinist) is able to play in lots of styles; whatever is required to earn the bucks. I'm certain that there are those on the BB like John Moses and GBK, as well as others that seem to be busy working and know exactly when, what, and how to play. That is the key to the whole thing; the instrument does not know no difference.
I have always had enough work as well. One weekend job might be with a dixieland banjo player, another job could a show or the circus, you migth get a call for a wedding or jazz job, and finally there could a chamber music gig (not much money there but those are the things that you enjoy doing - much like a lawyer's pro bono work).
So for anyone to pan Acker Bilk's work might IMHO be missing the bigger picture. As Liberace used to say "I'm laughing all the way to the bank."
HRL
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-25 13:11
Donn wrote:
> When I was active musically, we considered it bad form to
> criticize other musicians' playing. Could adversely affect
> their livelihood.
I was active musically once (in jazz) and my circle of friends always figured criticising recordings was fair game, since a recording generally is approved by the players and represents their best efforts.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-11-25 13:24
One of my old teachers once commented that Acker Bilk sounded as if he was attempting to play at A clarinet pitch, but using a Bb!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-25 14:05
Better Acker Bilk's tone than Kenny G's circular breathing minimalism is what I say.
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-11-25 14:49
winner smile
loser complain.
i'm sure Acker smiles every time he picks up his horn.
I would love to see him at the fest!
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-11-25 14:56
Synonymous hit on the word I was going to use to describe his style -- schmaltzy -- a word that can be applied to other arts as well. For example, Thomas Kinkead's painting. Thomas Kinkead's work is highly popular, but in my opinion, it is the acme of schmaltz. Is Acker Bilk the Thomas Kinkead of clarinet or is Thomas Kinkead the Acker Bilk of painting?
(schmaltz: sentimental or florid music or art -- www.m-w.com
schmaltz: excessively sentimental art or music -- www.dictionary.com)
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-11-25 15:05
Simon, Simon,
We never did answer your question but we sure had fun. The one word answer is:
COMMERCIALISM
Bob A
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-25 15:15
Bob A wrote:
> Simon, Simon,
> We never did answer your question but we sure had fun. The one
> word answer is:
> COMMERCIALISM
Somehow, I doubt Acker went into the business looking to get rich ... does making money doing what you wanted to do anyways equate with commercialism (commercialism being defined, at least in the way I think you implied, "excessive emphasis on profit" (Merriam-Webster) ).
Is Acker a commercial artist? Yes, but is it by design (and modification) or by accident (and staying true to his form)? And had he modified his sound & form, would that make what he did "wrong" or "commercial" if it sold more records? If he sold less after he changed, would it be more acceptable?
As you can see, I have a problem with the word, since it connotes changes for profit, and we really don't know the particulars.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-11-25 18:12
Seems to me that GBK did us a favor by linking to that extract that shows, in my opinion, that Bilk started out as a pretty hot jazz clarinettist. There was a craze for skiffle and NO-style jazz in Britain in the 1950s, and Bilk was part of it.
Bilk was not the only one to go "commercial" later. So did Chris Barber, for example. Who can begrudge them their success? We had a lot of fun with traditional jazz, but I don't think many of thought we were going to be able to make a living from it.
By the way, a lot of musicians at that time came from various art schools. Clarinettists Monty Sunshine and Wally Fawkes both became excellent newspaper cartoonists. Trumpeter Humphrey Lyttleton wrote the script for Fawkes's "Trog" column and is still a very popular broadcaster.
Anyway, thanks Simon for raising the subject. It prompted me to haul out my collection of 1950s jazz records and rediscover some long-forgotten pieces including some great stuff by trumpeter Ken Colyer and a wonderful hot clarinet player called Sandy Brown. Does anyone know what became of him?
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2003-11-26 01:48
You know.....the dude's got something......loved "stranger on the shore" when it came out in the early 60's. Even MORE when pete fountain did it.
Just got an Acker Bilk CD.....he's doing some Lionel Ritchie......and other "almost contemporary" stuff like Stevie Wonder. Kind of cool........interesting to listen to clarinet do modern tunes rather than classical and old benny and artie songs. You have to give the guy credit for playing "non-clarinet" associated songs. We all should be doing Don Henley and Pete Townshend instead of concentrating on the so called "classics". Try playing some Stones songs and stretch yourselves a bit. AT least that's the perspective from a guy who spent time playing rock and roll drums in 1960;s Berkeley/San Francisco with Jefferson Airplane.....
Country Joe....Steve Miller....Eddie Money....and Carlos Santana.
John Gibson
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-11-26 03:34
Since I was mentioned in Hank's post, I thought I'd put my two cents in on Acker Bilk.
"I'm certain that there are those on the BB like John Moses and GBK, as well as others that seem to be busy working and know exactly when, what, and how to play."
I always try to remember that Acker is unique. Like it or not, you know it's Acker Bilk from his first note on...and that is special.
I have been asked on quite a few dates, over the years, to "play like" Benny, Artie, Eddie, Giora, and yes, Acker Bilk. It's a challenge to play like those guys, but it's never really as good, I think, in part, because of their own uniqueness. To sound like Benny, for the Chase Bank spot, was difficult because I love and admire Benny's music. I was also difficult to sound like Acker, because I don't love his sound or style, but once I got into his groove, I enjoyed "being" Acker Bilk for that hour.
I always tell my students, it's easy to put-down the "big guys," but don't.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-26 04:23
I do not know why Mr. Acker Bilk sounded the way he did on "Stranger on the Shore." Until that recording appeared, back when I was playing Clarinet for real money, I had never heard of Bilk. Some revelers might ask me to play something like Bilk, and I'd respond that we had a deal: he didn't try to sound like me, and I wouldn't try to sound like him. Later I discovered that on none of his earlier recordings did I hear his... ahh... "distinctive" sound. I enjoy the Paramount Jazz Band stuff, as I am a fan of playing and listening to trad and similar NO jazz.
Some things are done for commercial experimentation and/or success, and Bilk made more money on records than any other Clarinetist of the late twentieth century. He carried forth with the "Stranger" sound to make a number of other recordings in the same style, and they sold well.
Jimmy Dorsey's "So Rare" had a sound never before heard from him on any recording. It's been said that someone at a recording session (his manager?) asked him to do one cut in a "modern" sax style. Dorsey didn't like the result, but that was his only million-selling record. He made no more in that style. If he had, maybe he would have cleared lots of bux.
Bilk, who has referred to his composition "Stranger on the Shore" as "My retirement plan" no longer plays. He paints. Wonder what style?
GBK: Thanks for linking the Paramount Jazz Band clip, no doubt introducing some to "the other" Bilk. .
Regards,
John
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-11-26 04:47
FWIW, at Barnes & Noble we shelve his cd (yes we carry only one) in the "Pop Standards" section.
Katrina
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Author: hornblower
Date: 2003-11-26 09:01
I was captivated by Acker in the 1960's thought he was great and still do, he is probably the reason I took up the clarinet 40yrs later. Someone said he doesnt play any more, if you care to look at the Acker Bilk site you will see he certainly still does,and has a very busy concert diary
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-26 20:41
Wow, hornblower, I had been told a few years ago that he was playing no more. Thanks for the correction!
Regards,
John
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2003-11-27 17:55
Couldn't resist adding my 2 cents worth. Yes, Mr. Acker Bilk has what many would consider a dreadful sound, but for some reason I enjoy listening to one of his cds as much as I enjoy listening to Don Byron, Pete Fountain, Karl Leister and so many more. In case you haven't seen the sheet music for "Stranger on the Shore", Acker Bilk actually has the credit for the music !! If he was smart enough to retain the ownership rights, "Stranger on the Shore" really is a retirement plan for him.
I actually found a cd by the title of "Romantic Clarinet for Lovers". Included on this cd are Mr. Acker Bilk and several others that have similar sounds. Also on the cd are Jan Morks, Archie Semple, Peter Schliperoort, Albert Nicholas, monty Sunshine, and yes even Gerry Mulligan on clarinet.
Ralph
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-11-27 18:31
Gosh that's a good idea -- Romantic clarinet for lovers. Tell us what's on it.
I don't think my wife finds my Klose exercises so romantic. Perhaps Acker Bilk had some better ideas.
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-11-27 20:00
I don't find any fault with his playing, but he could work on his sound.
This guy must be playing a metal clarinet to sound "like a saxaphone". Sax is very popular in modern jazz. At times he even sounds distorted.
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-11-28 14:53
does anyone know if AB has a songbook available. i would love to find a book of his arangements.
i have checked all of the internet music stores and nothing.
maybe something is available in the UK!
thankss
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-28 16:43
In my hometown I was (and still am) nicknamed Benny, not Acker (whose hit single was then "on the charts"). My ego has always been thankful......but my checkbook is still quite remorseful.
But, wasn't Acker Bilk's playing style appropriate for the music he chose to play--and isn't that the way it's really supposed to be???? Millions of record buyers seemed to agree "back then".
But the "bottom line" may be simply commercialiam vs artistic endeavor. Like Shakespear, "That is the question" which will never be answered to everyones approval. Fortunately, the beat goes on........
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-11-28 18:37
Any musician who cuts a record, or a session, that sells enough copies to make a profit is in grave danger of being called "commercial" by those who haven't and a few who have.
I'm sure glad all the commercial players haven't been intimidated.
As others have already said, I find Acker Bilk's intimate and 'down home', folksy style uniquely his own. Whatever one's 'style' happens to be, isn't that what we all strive for?
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-29 01:06
"Commercial"???
A few centuries ago, a guy named Michelangelo Buonarotti painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. And he did it for... Lots Of Money!
Not many people would think of Michelangelo as a commercial artist, yet he was. Hey, is there something wrong with making money? I don't think so.
Regards,
John
Post Edited (2003-11-29 01:08)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-11-29 02:02
John Moses wrote: "It's a challenge to play like those guys, but it's never really as good, I think, in part, because of their own uniqueness."
I would think that another factor is that there is a certain amount of extra mental energy used up in trying to sound like someone else. The brain has an extra step to go through.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-11-29 21:34
It might be a good idea to put Acker Bilk into some sort of context. The original question seems to be about the genre and/or context. During the 60's traditional jazz went through what was known as its revival period. Smaller jazz groups had become a little more commercially acceptable than the big bands of the preceding decades, mainly owing to the money issue.
During the 1960's there was a revival of the traditional jazz style. This moement in no small part was led by Louis Armstrong and the All Stars, which for the most part had Edmond Hall on clarinet and sometimes Barney Bigard. These musicians were reproducing the songs and collective imporvisational style of early traditional jazz in a more polished and commercially palatable style utilising improved microphone and amplification techniques, also with a standardised instrumentation especially in the front line. They also adopted a stage presence that was acceptable for movies and television.
Musicians from other countries, inspired by bands such as The All Stars began to revisit traditional jazz. Acker Bilk, Monty Sunshine et. al. were part of the British revival movement. Other notable bands were Alex Welsh and Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen. These were just the bands that became commercially popular, there were hundreds more. Some of these bands had great players, Roy Williams who played trombone with Alex Welsh was a superb player as was Bruce Turner who played reeds. Others fell ito a populist niche and were never great players but were absolutely dedicated to the style and were very accomplished 'commercially'.
These revival bands, especially in Britain, rated extremely well on both record charts and television. They made big money, most notably Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen, who shared the prime time television stage with most of Britain's top cabaret and commercial musical artists. Other countries developed a slightly different revival style to the British. In Australia a more 'hot' style was and still is favoured and the crossover between traditional and modern jazz players is more common. Likewise there is a crossover between legit players and jazz so, it could be said, that jazz players here have a little more technical 'polish'.
The reival style had a golden period of about 20 years and indeed it could be said that it is still popular. Traditional jazz is still a very marketable commodity, scarcely a week goes by where I do not do at least one trad jazz gig.
Acker Bilk fits into the British traditional jazz revival school. He is unique inasmuch as most of his commercial success was garnered through performing ballads such as Strangers on the Shore and Petit Fleur. He was, however, capable of some great hot playing. His tone in ballads could be described as haunting, his phrasing is first rate. He is also, as has been said above, responsible in part for giving the clarinet some commercial exposure and without doubt encouraging many players to take up the instrument.
Simon, if you are going to quote any of this for any sort of school/uni project, make sure you reference the material and give credit to the bulletin board and the particular contributors!
Post Edited (2003-11-29 21:37)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-11-29 22:34
Mark,
What you say is quite correct, but I have to correct you on a detail. The jazz revival started in the 1950s, not the 1960s. I know, because I was a small part of it, and I played in a traditional jazz group from 1957 to 1960. The first record I bought was a 45 single of Chris Barber's band playing Bobby Shafto -- the clarinetist was Monty Sunshine, if I remember right. Some of the big influences were the Crane River jazz band of the early 1950s, and the Ken Colyer jazz band. Colyer, so the story went, had jumped ship in New Orleans and brought back the authentic style. One of the big transatlantic influences was George Lewis, who came to England at least once or twice during the 1950s.
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2003-11-30 15:14
Okay......we've got Elvis impersonators....Beatles wannabes.....Even a Stones retro band here in Phoenix....BUT.....THEY'RE AREN'T ANY ACKER BILK impersonators playing the Casino stages.....or the Sundome in Sun City...the retirement capitol of Arizona....still? He has made his mark...whatever he plays......
jg
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-12-02 22:49
We've had a wonderful ramble around this subject, but on re-reading the thread, the thought occurs to me that no-one has answered Simon's original question.
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