 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Micaela
Date: 2003-11-21 19:38
OK, so I'm performing this tonight. I know how I'm going to play it. But I have a question. I am using the Henle edition. In the last movement, right at the end, there are a bunch of sixteenth note ascending scales. I've been tounging all of them, to match the viola and piano. However, in my recording (the American Chamber Players one), the clarinetist slurs the sixteenth notes. Is this musically legitimate? I don't think it sounds as good and it's not written that way in any edition I've seen of the piece. Thoughts?
[begin plug] By the way, if you're in the Philadelphia area tonight and have a need for Mozart.... [end plug]
Thanks,
Micaela
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-11-21 19:50
I think it's legit. In the Neue Mozart Ausgabe there are no slurs marked. When I performed it, I used slur 2 tongue 2. I don't remember why, but that's what I marked in the photocopy! It's been about 17 years since I played it though...
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-21 20:34
Micaela -
It's usual to slur those runs, but a lot of the more recent recordings have them tongued, particularly those made with early instrument reproductions, on which it's easier to tongue lightly.
The violist makes only half as many movements as you do, articulating a note on both the downbow and the upbow. On the other hand, it's easier to move the tip of your tongue than it is for the violist to move his or her whole arm.
The most important thing is to shape the phrases to match what the violist is doing -- that is, make the notes a line instead of a bunch of scrabbled notes. I'd say tongue the passage only if it doesn't interfere with the phrasing.
The violist will probably play "on the string" -- that is, without lifting or bouncing the bow -- or, at most, barely off the string. You have to match that with legato tonguing. Try saying "la" rather than "ta" so that the tip of your tongue barely brushes the tip of the reed. Practice playing the passage slurred. Then wiggle the tip of your tongue without touching the reed. Then just brush it.
Let us know how the concert goes.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-11-21 20:47
Micaela,
All the best for this evening !
The Kegelstatt is a wonderful piece. Have played it for over 40yrs. Great memories of playing it with my mum and dad. Smooth slurs for everyone in the Robert Linau version. Never played it otherwise. The secret (for me anyway) is to breathe well in advance of the semiquavers (16th notes), pressurise the air column and remove tongue from reed to give an exact start to the runs (a great general principle)
BobT
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RM
Date: 2003-11-21 21:10
Mozart didnt leave us much indication of what articulation, dynamics, etc. to use; he left it up to the soloist. So, do as Stadler did, play it the way you want! Thats the fun part of music.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2003-11-21 21:17
kia ora
when i played it earlier in the year i remember the annoying Violist and Pianist (who both had hangovers for EVERY rehearsal) wanted to play the 1st mvt very fast and the last not very fast... nothing i could do would persuade them otherwise (when the Violist comes out with things like "i have toured with nigel kennedy" the best thing to do is let him have his way).
one advantage of this was that it was easily possible to gracefully articulate the bit you're talking about. However (as said above) it is often slurred and can sound quite good this way.
is the recording you mention the one with Loren Kitt? When i got this recording as a young student i found it quite conservative and a bit boring. Years later, comming back to listen again (found tape in draw at mums house) i was astounded by how musical the performance was. If i remember correctly, Gigliotti mentioned this as a favourite recording in his column in the Clarinet.
donald....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-11-22 16:06
Check the Melos record with Gervase dePeyer, a very fine reading of this great music!
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micaela
Date: 2003-11-22 23:03
Thanks for your help. My concert went just fine (I tounged all the notes). I consulted an additional recording, where all the notes are tongued- go figure. Since most of the articulations in my edition are filled in (it's not urtext) I followed what was written. It's an interesting academic issue, though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-23 22:24
Micaela - congratulations. I'm glad you've played this wonderful piece. As to the question of "to articulate or not" ... it's kind of up to you - I'm glad you did. As a (very rare) clarinetist and violist I find Ken Shaw's remarks about | The violist makes only half as many movements | a little odd, play strings do you, Ken?
Anyway - did you recording this concert, I'd love to hear it if you can MP3 it, and assuming the other two-thirds of your trio don't mind.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-24 15:38
diz -
I only wish I could play strings. That way I could play and talk at the same time ;-). I tried a couple of lessons on violin, but the left arm position defeated me. You either have to start as a tiny child or be a contortionist.
I'm not sure why my coment is "odd." A string player makes notes on both the up and the down bow, or two notes for each cycle of movement. A clarinetist's tongue makes an articulation only when it touches the reed, which requires a complete cycle of movement for one note, unless you have learned how to double tongue (which has always been beyond me).
At any rate, congratulations to Micaela. It sounds like you're having a great time.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micaela
Date: 2003-11-24 17:05
I play violin also, as it happens. It does take very little movement for these kinds of runs. If you can get your wrist going in the right way and are in the upper third of the bow, this kind of stroke almost plays itself. It's harder on clarinet.
Ken- I didn't start violin at 2 and I'm not a contortionsist and I get by. Actually, I find bow arm technique much more difficult than left hand technique. Maybe that's because I'm left handed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-24 23:48
Unlike any other family of instruments, strings do really need to be started BEFORE your bones harden (preadolsecent) - as a general rule (this only applies to violins and violas for obvious reasons). The left arm needs to be tucked in quite unnaturally and this is almost without fail a cause of pain in adult string beginners. I would NEVER put any adult off playing a string instrument - I'd just warn them of the discomfort. My left arm, as a result of playing viola form around 9 years of age, bends inwards almost freakishly, but my right arm (bowing arm) is "normal".
As an adult - I'd much prefer suggesting you learn the clarinet, say, as it's problems (physcially) aren't so unnatural.
Ken - also fascinated to read that the thumb rest was a very recent invention (ouch). Also - Louis Sphor (champion of the clarinet) was the inventer of the chin rest on fiddles (and violas).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-25 13:46
Diz -
Where did you read about the thumb rest, and when did it come into use?
It's possible to play without one, at least on early clarinet reproductions, which are much lighter than the heavily keyed, grenadilla objects we play on today. At least with the reed on top, the instrument would be held nearly horizontal, making the thumb rest less necessary.
I played the Beethoven Trio on a 7-key boxwood instrument several years ago (reed down), and I had a much easier time without a thumb rest than the cellist, who played without an end peg. I think the cello end peg didn't come into general use until around 1900, though I'm certainly willing to be corrected.
Still, I have a thumb rest even on my soprano recorders. It just makes things more secure, and it positions my right hand better.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-25 17:29
I have never read of a definitive date for the origin of the thumb rest, but have seen it written by both Rendall and Kroll that it probably developed as a result of Ivan Müller's reforms in about 1806.
I believe that eventhough Rendall cites an 1825 9-key clarinet that was fitted with an ivory thumb rest, he speculates that the thumb rest probably came into use around the turn of the century...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
