 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TerpUMD
Date: 2003-11-20 03:10
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Attachment: fc_1_s.jpg (7k)
I've recently acquired an old Charles Chedeville mouthpiece. It has zero playing mileage on it and has its original facing. I currently play on a Vandoren 5RV Lyre Profile 88 using V12 #4-4.5 reeds. As for the rest of my setup, I play a Buffet Vintage R-13 with an inverted Bonade ligature. I play primarily in orchestral and solo settings.
How does one go about refacing mouthpieces, like the Chedeville, to setups such as mine?
I'm currently looking at mouthpiece technicians such as Greg Smith, Richard Hawkins, John Weigand, and one other the MD faculty is pointing me towards.
What are typical methods and rates? I'd appreciate anything anyone could tell me regarding this process as I have never had a MP refaced before.
Thanks,
Rob
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-11-20 04:07
hmmmm i'm sure someone can fill you in on the vintage of that one... looks like it's in good condition. What matters, of course, is how it sounds.
the opinion of some (good) mouthpiece refacers is that if it's good to start with, you should change it as little as possible. For instance, if this mouthpiece has quite a wide tip opening (say, around the 1.5mm mark) it may not be a good idea to bring it down to the 5RVlyre facing (1.07 to 1.09mm in my experience).
i would recomend Brad Behn or Lee Livengood as experts in vintage mouthpiece refacing, but i am sure that there are many others who do a good job (Smith and Hawkins are certainly very well respected).
donald..
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-20 14:08
Bob -
The outside of the mouthpiece doesn't have the mirror finish you associate with a pristine piece, and the inside shows white discoloration that may indicate that it's been worked on. Obviously, there's no real way to tell from photographs what changes, if any, have been made.
The only important thing is how it plays. If you like it, why do you want to have it refaced? If you don't like it, take it to someone who knows how to work on this kind of mouthpiece, always realizing that any change takes you further away from what it originally was.
On the other hand, you can probably get $600 for it on eBay, which will buy you several hand-made mouthpieces matched specifically to your instrument and your style of playing. Also, this is as much a collector's item as something you would play on, and it loses value if you have any changes made. If it doesn't work for you (and I've played several
Chedevilles that I could hardly get a sound out of), I'd say sell it, or keep it in a display cabinet for show.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2003-11-20 14:45
I bought two identical Chedevilles a few years back which were in stock in a music store. The inside coloring is original and indicates the mp simply has not been washed since manufacture. Neither of the examples I bought played without refacing. Because of the circumstances of the store purchase and what experience I have had with other Chedevilles, I concluded that these mouthpieces were of "middle" period manufacture...that is, not as old as the vintage Chedevilles with the greek key decoration and yet not as new as the Chedvilles now available from stores such as Weiners. I don't feel they are any more than 15 years old....of course, this is just my opinion.
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-11-20 17:49
ps- in my posting i meant 1.2mm, not 1.5mm
i have only a little experience with vintage mouthpieces, but it doesn't look like an "early" ched.
donald...
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-11-20 21:56
the pix look a lot like the new ones glotin is selling at $300 a pop
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2003-11-21 00:26
The new Glotin Chedevilles have, I believe, facing markings in numbers such as 6,7,8, while the one Rob has pictured is marked MO. I still think it is fairly new, but not as new as the present mouthpieces available. It could be an early run from Glotin a few years back.
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Author: TerpUMD
Date: 2003-11-21 00:59
If it's any help in determining the "type" of Chedeville this is, the reserved price was $350. Then again, I may have been had by the seller--who knows.
It hasn't come in the mail yet, so you can all probably tell I'm pretty eager to get my hands/mouth on it.
Rob
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-21 14:56
With all due respect to Mr. Gibson, most of the crystal Pomarico's I've tried recently have needed significant refacing to play well --- I've found the factory facing curves to be uneven and much too short. That aside, they are of excellent quality and have the potential to be great mouthpieces after a bit of tweaking --- I play them myself on both bass and soprano clarinets.
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Author: lyn
Date: 2003-11-21 17:59
[ Deleted - Please contact the original poster off-line to conduct any business - GBK ]
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2003-11-21 19:54
With even more respect to Mr Spiegelthal....who is an excellent technician having overhauled my Boosey 2-20 and refaced it's original MPC....I recently received a Pomarico Diamond plus crystal MPC from Riccardo Clericci at Pomarico....and it is excellent. Maybe Riccardo likes me, but this one and the others I've purchased "direct" are the best I've ever played. Matter of fact, the most recent is better than the others. So maybe they're constantly working to better themselves and their MPCs every day.
By the way Dave.....that Boosey plays wonderfully with an old Brilhart Personaline MPC. NOt the cream colored one with the sort of orange insert...but the black one with the gold insert.....WOW. What a sound. Thanks for your expert technician-ship.
John Gibson
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-11-22 04:25
Perhaps a refacing expert could take a careful look at the mouthpiece to determine the condition of the facing. They can check for warpage, too flat a table, length of the curve, width of side and tip rails, curvage of the facing into the tip, tip damage, match of lay to a standard reed, polish on the interior, etc without doing any facing rework. If a mouthpiece looks fine on careful inspection, the refacer may not wish to change it. The adage, "don't fix it if it ain't broke" could apply.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-22 05:05
TerpUMD,
I had my mouthpiece, a Gigliotti P facing (chedeville copy), refaced by Dave Spiegelthal mentioned (and posted) above. I'm not sure what his rates are now or if they've changed but I had mine done for about 40 dollars (at least I think that's what it was). And I think it was worth every penny. He did a great job and I asked him to keep the P facing (which was very closed) and he was able to work everything else around it. And it plays VERY well and sounds great. Now all I need is a clarinet that allows me to play with more expression.
Each mouthpiece refacer has different charges. They all charge what they want. It's whatever they think they're time is worth. I sent my mouthpiece away. And got it back in good condition.
Just contact any of the refacers and they'll give you their rates, shipping charge, and how long it'd take.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Lisa
Date: 2003-11-27 00:58
Sorry, I don't have an answer to your question, but I noticed from your user name that you might be in my neighborhood! I'm in the UMCP Community Band with Mr. Wakefield. Are you a current student?
Cheers,
Lisa
Post Edited (2003-12-06 02:19)
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Author: TerpUMD
Date: 2003-12-05 20:49
Well, it's finally arrived.
Closer inspection of the mp shows an uncolored stamp reading "FRANCE".
It is an MO facing.
I'm thinking Douglas was right in suggesting this is an early run Glotin. Would still like some input, though.
The letter from the seller--principal clarinettist for the CBC Radio Orchestra--states he couldn't use it or "get it to work for him" and "didn't have the time to do work on it" and that "no one skilled enough to do such work was around his area".
I haven't played on it yet (little nervous).
Also, could someone e-mail me Brad Behn's information so I can finally round up all my refacing quotes.
Thanks everyone.
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2003-12-05 23:01
He seems to sell a lot of stuff. Credentials sound good, but how are the mouthpieces? Is this who sold it to you?
Copied from CBC website:
<<<<<Gene Ramsbottom
Clarinet
Gene Ramsbottom is the principal clarinetist with the CBC Vancouver (since 1984) and Vancouver Opera Orchestras (1975-1995). He has concertized in Canada, England, France, snip
After serving an apprenticeship as one of two candidates in the Canada Council’s Arts Management Training Programme (1975), he founded the Ramcoff Concert Society, developing it into a major presenter of classical chamber music. Concert series he has produced include Out for Lunch (Vancouver Art Gallery), Lunch and Listen (BC Tel: Burnaby), Sixth Season (Centennial Theatre), Chateau Classics (Hotel Vancouver), Bach’s Lunch (Hong Kong Bank of Canada Headquarters), and the Whistler International Mozart Festival
As a community advocate of live music, he has served as snip............>>>>
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-12-06 00:28
I am confused. If Chedevilles (and many other excessively expensive old-time mouthpieces I have been reading about) are so precious, why do they generally not seem to play well at all without major refacing? I've only played on a VD B45 and am reasonably happy with it. I have so far resisted to explore the what seems to be a never-ending search for the perfect mouthpiece. The more I read, the more I think I may be doing the right thing. Any comments to prove me wrong?
Please excuse my ignorance. I am new at this and may ultimately get caught up in the same (futile?) search!
Henry
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-12-06 00:31
It's like professional golfers spending a thousand dollars on a putter.
Does it make them instantly better? Probably not.
Does it increase their confidence? Perhaps.
If you have something working well for you, stay with it!
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