 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-20 18:55
I hope Mark will permit discussion of this eBay item, which has gotten a lot of attention on the Klarinet list. It's a tiny, and perhaps even playable, clarinet in high C, a 9th above the standard Bb instrument. It has finger plates, which operate tiny holes along the sides. I've never seen or heard of anyting like it.
[ link deleted - not while the auction is in progress. Jim Lande, I believe, had copies of the pictures (by permission) that wouldn't post because they were mis-named, but hopefully he tries again. I will post some pictures shortly that I received from Mike Bryant showing the tiny G clarinets ("Schrammelmusik, what little clarinets in G are for")
Mark C. ]
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-20 19:56
Wow! - My big, fat fingers would have about as much chance as a one legged man in a butt kicking competition of being able to operate that little cutie. I would imagine it's custom made, Mark, any ideas?
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-20 20:11
New to me also, Ken. Been watching it for a while, and the bid price hasn't gone up for a day or two now.
Although claimed to be a Boehm, this thing certainly isn't even close. More like a Müller, except it doesn't even have all of Müller's keys.
But what a wee stick it must be to play! This is absolutely the highest pitch Clarinet ever seen by these old eyes. Ahh, to be independently wealthy....
Regards,
John
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-20 20:56
David ... yes - the bigger the better, in my book. I'm still trying to convince myself to spend money needlessly and purchase a contrabass clarinet.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-20 21:00
David, you seem to prefer Clarinets in direct proportion to the number of times the bore is folded.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-11-20 21:17
I played on an A-flat a few years ago and there were definitely issues. My fingers are not fat at all and fitting them all down on the holes was an issue. And I don't have that problem on piccolo.
I wonder how many of these things were ever made.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-20 21:42
Mark -
Unfortunately, eBay no longer gives access to closed auctions, so once the auction is over, the pictures will disappear. Is it OK to say go to eBay and search on "clarinet" and "octave"?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Aad Overeem
Date: 2003-11-20 22:04
Ken,
If you don't bid yourself you can use the 'Watch This Item' option on eBay, that way you have access to the item for a longer time (90 days or so?) after the auction is over.
Hope this helps,
Aad Overeem
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Author: Amy
Date: 2003-11-21 21:11
Would you have to get special reeds for it or could you just use the same reeds as used for a Bb clarinet?
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-11-22 16:27
Personally, I think I will hold out for a chalumeau garklein. (Is that an oxymoron?)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-22 20:59
Cute, useless?, squeeks can be obtained from a mp and barrel, also. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-11-22 21:45
Sold for $1,214.99. BTW, the National Music Museum placed a last-minute bid but was outsniped.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: susieray
Date: 2003-11-23 15:12
I have been watching the auction a little, and I notice the winner is "musicman3" from the London area; and upon checking the person's feedback I found it is someone named Tony, who seems to be dealing in antique instruments/paraphernalia for the most part.
Sue
P.S. All the items that have been bought/sold within the last 90 days are still in the ebay database, and I have no problem getting the pictures to show up, even items that I do not have on my own "watching" page.
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Author: phil
Date: 2003-11-23 22:59
The Clarinet by Oskar Kroll Mentions the little clarinet its list of clarinet family members, but gives no further information. Also, The Clarinet by F. Geoffrey Randall says it was mentioned in a text in 1850 but does not mention any existing specimens. Does anyone know the maker of this instrument?
Phil
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-24 02:14
Sachs, in History of Mus. Insts. says "Octave Clarinets in C, Bb OR Ab were made since 1800. The smallest one in my Deutsches Museum catalog, and in my pic of its display case, is listed as an As [flat] by Kraus of Augsburg, 2 keys, about 2/3 of the length of an Eb, perhaps 14 "? I have some info from the Bate in Oxford, will look for it. The smallest listed in my 2500 Hist. WW Insts is an Eb. Collectors, such as Al Rice, frequenting the Yahoo-Group "Early Clarinet" site, will have the newer edition, other sources of info, knowledge and prob. greater interest in the subject than we, hope they may comment here. Fun?, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-24 02:45
Don ... thanks for the yahoo hint - just wasted a lot of (work) time trying to find your early clarinet site (couldn't find it) but did stumble across some wonderful resources about our early clarinet ancestors.
I was ignorant about reeds "being on top" until so recently, really, also that the six keyed clarinet was "better" than the unduely complicated 10 key clarinet and remained in production until Boehm turned up and invented his own key mechanisms (correct me if I'm wrong).
thanks - Don - great stuff, fascinating.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2003-11-24 05:28
I emailed the seller of this little clarinet last week and asked how big it was; they said it was 11" long. I could write them again and see if they
know who made it. They might.
Sue
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-24 07:02
diz: A direct link to the reference on the six-key vs. the ten-key Clarinets would be appreciated. Perhaps the 10-key inmstrument played by Baermann around 1810 is meant.
Around 1812, a 13-key Bb Clarinet designed by Iwan Müller, a vituoso Clarinetist of the day, was presented to a Commission of French experts (including Lefèvre of the Paris Opera) who rejected it because it could be played in any key. For that reason, it would do away with the differing tonal nuances of the Clarinets of many pitches then in use. This was thought to be undesirable. Müller's Clarinet did, however, become popular in time. It eventually led to later designs, including those of Albert (late 1860s) and Oehler (early 20th century).
The so-called Boehm Clarinet was patented in 1844 by Klosé and Auguste Buffet (not the Buffet of Buffet-Crampon). Boehm himself had nothing whatever to do with its design. It was later called the Boehm Clarinet, as it was likened by someone (marketing?) to the excellent job Boehm had done in reinventing the flute with his design which is still used.
Regards,
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-24 14:34
Diz - TKS, I enjoy our "learning mode". Sorry, I should have given the site, its EarlyClarinet@Yahoogroups.com, however posting there is sporadic. I believe their archives can be searched. Al Rice has 2 books out [Amazon and ?B&N?] Baroque Cl [$25, PB], and Cl in Classical Era [HB, $74], Chr. is coming up, am hoping!! I'd be surprised if info re: our little cls weren't in them!! Will look in Groves before long. Also TKS, John McA, for the history lesson, didn't Sax have some input to adapting Boehm's flute rings to the cl?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-24 20:07
John,
Here's the (fascinating) article from whence my paraphrasing comes:
http://www.ackermanmusic.co.uk/early_clarinet.htm
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-11-25 01:58
eBay keeps the listings for 90 days, but most pictures are actually located in seller webspace -- sometimes the seller's website, sometimes an outfit that specializes in providing space for eBay pix. I have seen pix disappear within minutes of an auction closing.
If you are in internet explorer, point to one of the pictures, right click and chose the "save as" option. Just make sure if you change the name, you retain the .jpg file extension. (I did rename the Selmer pix and successfully post them). Usually you can highlight text and cut & paste it into a word or notepad file.
Also, be sure to write to the seller and get permission before using the pictures or the text. The pictures & text are the property of the seller.
Once the auction is over and you have permission from the seller, it is possible to post a synopsis of an eBay funny without having to include a link to the auction.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-25 13:58
Of interest concerning clarinets made in the middle 1800's [on EarlyClarinet@Yahoogroups.com] may be the question about the marking "SGDG", relating to patents, and answers by two real experts in the antique inst. study/business. Well worth reading. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: susieray
Date: 2003-11-26 15:02
Here is the reply I got from the buyer of the little clarinet:
[ Sorry, you need permission from the originator of the email before posting it here, or just paraphrase it without revealing who the buyer was. Email messages should always be considered private correspondence. Mark C. ]
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Author: susieray
Date: 2003-11-26 15:42
Attachment: Clarinets.DOC (40k)
Okay, here's his permission:
**************
Sue,
Thanks for replies, no problem for me if you forward my details, also feel
free to forward the book list as well, who knows I might do a bit of
business from it.
Best wishes
Tony
***************
Here's his original message:
Dear Sue
Sorry I cannot tell you anything about the small clarinet, I have sold it on
to The National Music Musuem in Vermillion SD, http://www.usd.edu/smm/ is
their website, you could contact them...
I have a shop in London selling old musical instruments, iconography and
reference books, attached is my clarinet booklist..
Best wishes
Tony Bingham
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-26 15:48
Great! I originally had a suspicion that Tony had purchased the item, and surprised the the NMM ended up getting it so soon from him.
I've talked with Tony on the phone once (when ordering The New Langwill Index - he publishes it) and have spoken to people who have been to his shop. It's a grand treasure trove of unusual items, I've been told, and worth a visit if you're in London.
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