 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-11-19 02:54
I saw a full boehm A clarinet on eBay with some very interesting modifications. Here is what the seller says:
"On the lower joint, the tone-hole for the C#-F# has been moved from the back of the instrument to the front. The keys were then modified to allow a true B-C# (E-F#) trill. Now when executing this trill, the C# (F#) pad closes and opens automatically. I doubt that you can figure out how all of this works by looking at the pictures, but it works beautifully. Also, the linkage to the low E-flat WAS REMOVED, leaving the low E-flat key useless, unless you close it with YOUR KNEE! All of this work was beautifully done long before I got the horn."
I'm curious what folks think about these sorts of modifications? Were there reasons to start with a full boehm rather than a clarinet with standard keywork? Anyway, the horn certainly looks interesting.
I have permission from the seller to post the following pix:
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Author: marcia
Date: 2003-11-19 06:30
Could the pix be a little darker?? They seem to have faded. (-:
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-19 14:05
Hi Jim - I found the EBAY item by making a search for "Full Boehm", and yes the modification are interesting! I have a very old Selmer FB [no "findable" ser #] and a 1932 Sel FB, both are "standard FB's" with the left side F#/C# tone-hole and pad actuation. The seller DOES know what he is talking about, his description is accurate IMHO! If you are familiar with a patented improvement late in the Albert-Muller time period, I have a couple of "2 rings on UJ and 2 rings on LJ" models which have this "two pads for F/C" appearance, [which I believe was named Patent C#, having some adjustment linkage], which DOES allow a better trill of B to C# [E to F#, is prob. even less likely!!]. I find myself getting "wound-up" in description here, but I believe this is the modification ?someone skillful? made. Prob. the low E touch and rod were in the way, and were removed, also on an A cl, a low Eb would be seldom needed IMHO! Of course the pics dont show the "scars" on the horn's left side by this re-location !! Gosh, I sure go on/on, but will be happy to read any other "analyses" . WOW, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2003-11-19 16:18
Actually, it looks very similar to the Selmer Bass clarinet set-up with all the holes to one side. Reminds me of my low C Selmer. *dream* I think it's cool.
--Contragirl
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-11-19 18:11
very beautiful work, wow
one advantage to having the low Eflat key on the A clarinet (despite the note being seldom used) is that the extra bit of bore makes the middle line B sound a lot better. There is in fact one brand of modern clarinet that offers this for this reason (an open hole with no key).
of course, if the key was actually attached to a touchpiece then you could play viola parts in string quartet without any octave jumps.
just exactly how useful THAT is remains to be seen.
donald....
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-19 18:54
Jim -
Very interesting. I've never seen a separate set of posts for the low Eb key, which is usually on an extension of the rod that holds the F#/C# key, or perhaps the E/B key. However, the design of the posts for the Eb key matches the other posts quite well, so it may be original.
According to a multipart biography of Reginald Kell that ran in The Clarinet a year or so ago, Kell designed a clarinet with the F#/C# key on the same side as the other keys. I don't know whether it had the trill mechanism, and it was never put into production.
The Selmer Albert system clarinets had the F#/C# hole on the "wrong" side, which makes them instantly recognizable.
The Mazzeo "Personal Model" also had a mechanism for a perfect whole-step trill on E/B, but the F#/C# hole remained on the opposite side from the others.
I'd be worried about the plugged hole. It's not elegantly done, and matching the bore would be difficult.
The trademark is "H. Selmer," before they started using the current "wreathed" trademark. These instruments had a great reputation, but on something this old, there's always the danger of alteration (not to mention wear), and the listing says it has a Bundy barrel rather than the original.
Note also that, as discussed on an earlier thread, the left-hand finger holes are almost in a straight line, which means a big stretch for the left ring finger, particularly on an A clarinet.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-19 19:31
TKS, Donald, I looked up the Lefe{b}vre "clan" in Groves, to satisfy my curiousity re: the Patent C# ? by the Rev.. I have a Selmer 33 bass cl with the 2 F/C tone-holes, as I believe contragirl observed, [its lower hole is slightly above the level of the F#/C#, perhaps only for mechanism reasons??], and have seen the open "bell hole" on some oboes, and have a friend with Sel Recital and Sig. with a keyed "resonance?" hole. Lots of ways to "skin the cat" !! Back to your "tramsposed-string-parts" RANGE problem, I recall discussion on Bass-cl Yahoo Group of the B C in A with a low Eb being able to play the cello's bottom note [similar to your mentioning the viola"]. Serendipity?? It seems that we have answers for un-asked questions!! Great to chat. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2003-11-19 19:48
There seems to have been an "odd modification" to the font in that last reply!
Joanna Brown
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-19 19:56
Rite y're, J B, not due to me , wot hoppen, Mark C? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-11-19 20:07
Don: It happened on the other thread as well. Perhaps in both cases you tried to be perfect by adding a "accent grave" on top of the e in Lefebvre? This may have caused havoc!
Henry
Post Edited (2003-11-19 20:11)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-19 20:28
TKS, Mark, another lesson in BB communication, I guess. I have two choices for brackets [guess that's the term} so will use the last, BUT, are there other "trickies" we all should know , or just stumble along?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-19 20:34
Don Berger wrote:
> BUT, are there other "trickies" we all should know ,
It's in the "Help/Rules" pick
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-11-20 00:28
The barrel wouldn't worry me that much. First, if the Bundy dates to the 1930s, then it may well be the same quality. Secondly, someone like Walter G. can make a barrel that in all likelyhood would look great and outplay the original.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-20 18:44
The "Patent C#" mechanism on a non-Boehm instrument requires an extra hole near the lower end of the lower joint, so that F#/C# can be produced with two different open hole configurations. There is no reason at all for a Boehm instrument to work this way, as the three lowest keys on R4 are all duplicated for L4. Of course, if someone liked an Albert or some other Clarinet so much he wanted to "enhance" the Boehm's versatility, who knows....
Regards,
John
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