 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bright184
Date: 2003-11-16 16:49
Just for background information, I am a college student (music ed.) playing Bb clarinet and alto clarinet on the side.
My father, an engineer, has suddenly picked up the habit of buying old-looking clarinets at flea markets, with the dream that he may one day rehaul them into the ultimate clarinet.
Since I am trying to convince him that this is a very very very bad idea, I first want to research the two decent-looking clarinets.
Today he brought home a Cloudet Paris Bb clarinet with serial # 981. It has the modern key system and looks like it would just need new pads, and a professional to go over the keys and such.
A few weeks ago he brought home a G Pruefer C clarinet #1304 with premodern keys (only 3 trill keys, two right-hand pinky keys etc.) The barrel is a Buffet Crampon? & C.
Two big questions:
For the first clarinet, is it worth it to get it overhauled by a professional?
Second, as a future music educator, should I just use the second clarinet as a teaching tool or try to get it fixed?
Thank you for any help you can give me!!!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-16 19:47
I have been hoping that someone else [rather than this slightly-musical , retired engineer] might start posting re: your interesting ?problem? ! I have thots at times about restoring more old cls [not to the "ultimate" tho] , but consider how to explain it to the B W, beyond the present dozen! I looked in Rendall, Brymer and Sachs, but found no reference to Cloudet, Mark C, will you look in Langwill, please, my guess is that its a stencil horn, possibly a fairly good one. The Pruefer C?? !! [or HP Bb?], sounds like a late 1800s Albert/Muller, likely a good cl. I suggest restoring it to playing condition for demonstration when you teach cl history. Your dad should be able to do at least half of the work, for his enjoyment and your amusement [but also learning]. Please let us know how this "music" plays out. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-11-16 19:52
Hmmm.....my Dad used to do some dumb things when I was younger......
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Author: bright184
Date: 2003-11-16 21:25
Well, since my dad is bound and determined to fix these things one of these days (and it couldn't hurt for me to learn how to put pads in and such) where does one find reliable instructions and/or new pads and cork?
Please tell me if there's a "Clarinet Repair for Dummies" out there, or something along the same line!
Any advice would be fabulous :-)
-Bright
P.S. Which half of the work would be appropriate for a retired engineer??
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-16 22:16
Bright - You guessed it, I'm in favor of old folk keeping busy and learning in the process. You might enjoy the challenge also. Well down on the BBoard [at present] is a thread "Clarinet Repair -----", well-down in which there are several books suggested, and in other [searchable] threads, and in our Classifieds, sources of repair supplies are given. To begin, your Dad will need several small screwdrivers, small-nose pliers, brightly-lighted work space, key oil, much patience AND a very small crochet hook [I'll let you ponder what for!!] to just remove the keys. I always return the pivot screws and rods to their removed-from location, saves time on reassembly!That may be the first 50% desired, find a pro repairer if possible! LUCK, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-11-16 22:23
I ascribe to a few schools of thought on these older horns;
It's just a machine, so repairs are always possible.
Few of the older instruments are worth any amount of money - why try?
You may find a hidden gem in the works, although unlikely - maybe so...
*******
To find values on any instrument look to eBay for real world pricing.
Beware the local shops offering to do the work based on inflated appraisal.
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-11-16 23:24
Kate,
I am not trying to discourage your father, but here (below) is a sample list of caveats from one of my instrument repair manuals. This list might give him/you a rough idea of knowledge that is essential before your father starts trying to repair clarinets. Unless he already knew these "do not's", he may want to do some research to avoid problems.
The repair technicians who visit the BB could certainly add many more do's and don'ts to the list.
If he gets good at it, clarinet repair might make a good retirement hobby?
Regards,
Hans
Do not attempt to assemble a wood instrument when its tenon rings are loose
Do not bend a key to compensate for play between the parts due to missing a piece of cork or felt. Bending a key may prevent the next key from working and eventually the entire action will be out of adjustment.
Do not boil plastic or hard rubber mouthpieces to sterilize them. Hot water will warp these materials and ruin the mouthpiece.
Do not use rubber bands on silver plated instruments to hold keys closed, or to hold keys with broken springs open. Rubber contains sulphur which will eat through the plating quickly.
Do not put oil or grease on pads to waterproof them. Oil will cause the pads to shrink and fall out.
Do not fail to oil all rods, springs, and screws immediately after cleaning an instrument with polish. Most polishes will cause the steel in rods, etc. to rust.
Do not use ordinary glue or water soluble adhesive to install pads, bumpers, corks, or felts. Humidity, saliva, perspiration, and condensing breath will soften the adhesive and cause it to fail.
Do not heat a pad cup with a lighter or match to secure a pad if you know that the pad has previously been "floated in". If the pad cup contains French cement and a thin pad is used, excessive heat will force the cement out from under the pad.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-16 23:53
Cloudet? Beats me. As suggested, perhaps Mark could assist. There have been literally thousands of names used on French-built Clarinets, most of them thoroughly undistinguished. The likelihood that a "Cloudet" could be anything special without raising any eyebrows in this group is vanishingly small.
On the other hand, Preufer (located in Providence, Rhode Island) was known to build some nice stuff. I agree with Don Berger that it would be a good candidate for overhaul. With three side keys, it is most likely an Albert system instrument, favored over Boehm Clarinets by a few players (Woody Allen, for example).
This sounds like a really neat thing to do, but do get your father a few books so he will have some information on older Clarinets and their potential value. He should also learn how to recognize an instrument that isn't likely to be worth an investment of time. Or, if he can affor to waste a bit of money, why not just let him go on.
I'd be concerned, though, that the Cloudet (as with many others) might be worth hardly more than a new set of pads, even after it's repaired.
Regards,
John
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-17 00:19
Nothing in The New Langwill Index apropos to Claudet. There is such a maker, but not with that mark.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-11-17 04:13
Interesting topic, Bright184.
My primary, favorite, horn is a Pruefer Oehler system. Almost all my secondary horns are Alberts (the system I learned on) and one is a simple system. I maintain all of them myself and repair woodwind instruments as a 'retirement business', meaning: I don't need to depend on it to earn a living - I can be choosey about the work I accept. I've been doing this since I retired several years ago.
I had some summer apprentice-type training through my last two high school years, nearly fifty years ago, and for about three years after that I did it full time. I got away from fixing horns after that, though I always liked the work and returned to it, as I've already mentioned, as a retirement hobby.
Even with my background, I took 'lessons' from a local tech during my re-training phase and continue to consult him on an ongoing basis. I would strongly recommend that anyone seriously interested in doing repair work get the best Mentor you can find, pay him or her to teach you by following a plan that will teach you step by step how to do it right.
Oh, about the Collector Sysdrome: I have about a dozen Albert horns in my arsenal and a Boehm bass and a Boehm alto clarinet (I play both systems, by the way). The Alberts, should I decide to sell, would likely fetch little more than a hundred US dollars for the best ones. So money isn't my motive. I'm just sorta fond of 'em and my wife doesn't complain... I write 'em off a 'training projects' 
This may be dangerously close to self promotion. I don't mean it to be taken that way. I'm only offering a synopsis of my own experience for information for your Dad's consideration. My hope is that if he does persue his inclination - do it right. I've met too many folks who call themselves repair techs -- who Ain't....
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: bright184
Date: 2003-11-17 12:07
Okay, so I'm slightly dyslexic........
It's "COUDET"....no L.......sorry!!!!
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2003-11-17 14:28
Bright, while your father is looking for those "gem" clarinets, be sure you have told him about the possibility of finding a vintage mouthpiece with real value. Kaspars, Chedevilles, Lelandais have been found by doing just what your father is doing.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-17 14:41
Cloudet, Coudet... doesn't matter to me. No record of either in any reference here.
Regards,
John
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-17 15:01
In a few years, my own daughters might be writing on some bulletin board about all the old clarinets their demented old mechanical-engineer Dad has been puttering around with in the basement.....
I've seen a number of Coudets on eBay over the years but have never worked with one myself --- seems to be one of the numerous smaller French brands from the 1920-1940s timeframe.
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