 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2003-11-14 10:35
I'm having problems with clarion G# (just at the top of the staff) and was wondering if this note is more affected by pulling the barrel or the middle joint? I am assuming the barrel, but then my throat notes can go a bit too low for comfort. Thanks
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-11-14 11:38
AN,
Although you did not say excatly I'm guessing you are sharp on the G#; the pad height for the the G# might be too much. What happens when you don't depress the G# key fully? You might have a pad waving in the breeze causing an elevation in pitch.
Try pulling the center joint, get your tuner, and see what happens. Many times, the whole tuning bit will be a compromise as to whether you want the throat tones to be low or .....
But then, I play classic Leblancs which seem to be very well in tune. However, during the summer, the whole thing goes out the window with hot weather and the long barrel comes out.
It's all a compromise. I have a perfectly in-tune L 200 which is a little too resistant for me. I have gotten to know what notes are problems and then figure out what I am willing to give up.
HRL
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-14 13:27
Nick -
I think pulling out the center joint would have the most effect on the clarion G# -- it lengthens the tube directly below the open hole.
This G# is more often low than high. If flatness is your problem, Francois Kloc showed me an excellent adjustment. The pad is almost always set too low. Play low E and open the key. You should get a multiphonic. If you don't, bend it slightly more open. Then do the same with low F, F#, G and A. You'll almost certainly have to open up the pad quite a bit, and it makes a big improvement in evenness of scale and the quality of the "long" altissimo F.
Once you get the pad height set, you may find that all notes using that key (chalumeau C#, clarion G#, altissimo F) are high. This is now the time to pull out the center joint. Steve Hartman says he had a cork shim installed at the end of his upper joint bottom tenon to fill the gap.
The real problem will be if the C#/G#/F are all over the place, so that fixing one throws the others even further out. This will require skewed undercutting "upsteram" or "downstream" from the center of the hole, and perhaps some bore adjustment.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-14 14:35
The G#(5) on my Concerto A was quite sharp at the factory, so Tom Ridenour (who spent considerable time tweeking both my new A & Bb Concertos) installed some kind of semi-permanet putty on the upper rim of the tone hole to bring that pitch down.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-14 15:52
William -
Tom used to use a type of epoxy that came in two flat putty strips that you kneaded together. It came out green. Being solid, it was easy to work with. I assume he still uses it. Is your stuff green?
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-14 17:32
The right-side C#/G# tonehole (which I presume is what you're talking about?) is the second-worst note on the typical clarinet (after the throat Bb) --- often the fuzziness and/or bad intonation (which can be either flat or sharp depending on make, model, and individual instrument) cannot be corrected by merely adjusting the pad opening height. Often what is required is to increase the undercutting of the tonehole, enlarge the tonehole in its entirety, open the tonehole up on either the upper or lower side while lining the opposite side to effectively 'move' the center of the tonehole up or down along the clarinet length, or some combination of these. A relatively small percentage of clarinets seem to have a really good C#/G# as they arrive from the factory. I wish it were as simple as just increasing the opening height --- often that doesn't work.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-11-14 21:05
David -
Of course you're right. On Luis Rossi's clarinets, which have a 1-piece body, the C#/G# hole is the acoustically correct size and position, and these notes are some of the best on his instruments. I have a Buffet with the articulated mechanism, where the hole is also properly placed, and once again it is pretty good, though I think the multi-layered material in the tone hole (wood/cork/metal/wood) causes problems, and the mechanism makes the venting problematic.
All I was saying was that on a standard instrument, it's usually possible to make some improvement, even if the situation isn't perfect. My R-13s, adjusted by Kalmen Opperman with complex undercutting and bore tweaking, have these notes very well matched to the others.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-15 14:32
Ken,
Regading the "junk" TR used in my G# tone hole, I havn't had the key off for years, but I seem to remember it being blue when he installed it. All I know is that is brought the pitch down (from Very sharp), but created a rather stuffy note that has to be favored by increased breath support. This is only my A Concerto. The G# 5 on my Bb is good. I wonder if the Brannens do a similar undercutting and bore tweeking job that Kal uses?? I know--give them a call (in fact, I think I will)--but do you have any "ready" info/insight??
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-16 23:58
Just recieved a reply from Linda Brannen which only referred me back to LeBlanc for accolustical advice. And, as that is where the original work was done, and as TR considered what he did to be the only solution available at the tme, I guess I'm "stuck" with a Concerto A clarinet with a poorly balanced (but in tune) G#5. For now, that is...........
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