 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: brez
Date: 2003-11-14 15:57
So right now I'm facing a dilemma with my R13 A clarinet, unfortunately I don't think the issue will be resolved properly.
Just asking for opinions from you all, but how do you all think the quality of the Muisc Group and their performance as Buffet dealers has been since taking over?
Also, what's the deal with their instruments? I've noiced that that quality of their wood is plummeting with every instrument, I swear I could drive a truck through the grains, they are so deep! I heard through the grapevine that there has been a surplus of blackwood on the market...because Buffet has started buying the "grade X" wood and relying on their name only, not quality anymore, in keeping their business going. So, companies other than them have been able to buy the dense oily stuff we all know and love.
With them taking such a risky dive, where does a die-hard Buffet player go next?
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-11-14 16:21
"I heard through the grapevine ....." isn't the kind of information I would want to rely on and it would be best not to repeat it.
Hans
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-14 16:49
hans wrote:
> "I heard through the grapevine ....." isn't the kind of
> information I would want to rely on and it would be best not to
> repeat it.
> Hans
I second that. Personally, I haven't see any differences in the clarinets - same people, same factory, different upper management.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-14 17:25
Today's philosophical question: Does great-quality wood go hand-in-hand with a great-playing clarinet? I've found that, overall and through the decades, the best wood has been that used on the various Boosey & Hawkes large-bore clarinets, from the Edgware through the Symphony 1010, from maybe the early 1950s through as late as the late 1970s. It looks great, it has nice grain and coloring, it stays smooth and shiny over the years, and hardly ever seems to develop cracks. Yet I doubt any of you reading this wood consider them to be better-playing clarinets than your beloved Buffets. So what's the correlation?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-11-14 17:51
I think that David has a good point that many elements, especially the machining, subsequent undercutting tone holes, and whatever other elements go into making a quality instrument have much to do with the ultimate playing characteristics of the horn. The quality of the wood may, like the quality of the materials in the substructure of a house, have some bearing on the longevity or the dimensional stability of the horn over time. The tendency to crack may? be greater in wood of lesser quality or wood that is improperly aged and stabilized - this is a difficult question to answer without extensive scientific testing. Hearsay and rumors - even the occassional observation, should not be used to characterize the Music Group or any other manufacturer without a body of data to support it.
The Doctor
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-11-14 18:14
I have a set of old R 13s. I now play on Selmer Recital Series models and prefer the tone and tuning way over the R 13 sound..
sound is a personal thing so remember the clarinet is just part of a group of elements that go into your own particular style.
The Festival series I generally prefer right now on the Buffet line because I like the flexibility these horns offer.
All clarinets are different from one another...
David Dow
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-14 18:20
I play on a number of older Buffets from the late 60's and early 70's. The bore on each and every clarinet shines like a mirror. The newer clarinets I have tested and inspected do not seen to exhibit this trait.
I think that more important than the quality of the wood is the precision of the cutting of the tone holes (no chips, no splinters, etc...) and the reaming of the bore (no chatter marks) as these have a marked effect on the tuning and response....GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-11-14 18:39
GBK wrote:
> I play on a number of older Buffets from the late 60's and
> early 70's. The bore on each and every clarinet shines like a
> mirror.
Do you remember if they did originally, or is it due to the polishing effect of swabs and oiling over the years?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-14 19:43
Mark...If my memory serves me (always a dangerous assumption), I think they always had that "polished" look - though probably a lot more after 30 years of swabbing and oiling.
The bores of the newer Buffets certainly do not look anything like mine, or the way I seem to remember them originally ...GBK
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-11-14 19:48
Mark,
I don't know how GBK's clarinet bores became shiny "like a mirror", but I can tell you that my 1988 Selmer Recital was like that in its original state the day I brought it home from the store. I oil it occasionally and this may have contributed to keeping it that way.
Regards,
Hans
Post Edited (2003-11-14 21:43)
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-14 20:34
In concurrance with GBK (who would dare ever disagree??), I specifically remember that my new R13 Buffets came (in the early 60's) with an already polished bore, because I compared them to my Selmer 9*, whose bore was somewhat dull in comparison. After no oiling, but many swabbings, they have retained the "gun barrel" shine over all these years. Incidently, My current instruments of choice--LeBlanc Concertos, early 90's--also have nicely polished bores with a good appearing grain elsewhere. However, I did notice, while auditioning a new Buffet RC A (not the TV), that the bore seemed rather non-uniform and dull in apperance and texture.
Didn't like the way it played, either--too "tubby".
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-14 21:18
A philosophical side question: Is a 'smooth, highly-polished shiny bore' a necessary (or should I say 'necessary and sufficient') characteristic of a good-playing clarinet? I've personally played many a clarinet and bass clarinet that had rough bores but played well, and conversely just about every cheap plastic clarinet has a VERY smooth bore, right? So does it matter?
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-11-15 00:07
I don't know what you mean by grapevine, but I can tell you for a fact, having interviewed them and seen them at work that the guys who finish the bore in Buffet professional clarinets are highly skilled artisans with decades of experience who would not send a clarinet out of the factory in sub-standard condition. Neither would the inspectors or testers. I wish we could lay off the rumors and keep to specifics.
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2003-11-16 04:56
And in any event, the change in ownership was rather recent. I wonder how many instruments currently offered for sale as new were produced before the change, and have since been somewhere in the distribution pipeline.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-11-16 07:38
David Spiegenthal asked whether smooth, polished bores are really a necessary thing. I have seen new Festivals that had rough bores, and have been told that is not a real issue, that how they play was most important. Can we answer David's question? I understand that pretty bores are something we all can see, but are they truely making a better clarinet somehow? (I saw and played these rough bored Festivals last Fall, before the ownership change.)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-11-16 08:05
If one goes by appearance and feel, one would have to assume that sharks, with their skin like sandpaper, were design to be pedestrian creatures.
Makers of racing yachts learnt from the sharks, and have a rough finish to the hull surface.
That a polished bore on a clarinet makes a better sound is surely a wild assumption unless proved otherwise.
Heresay - so dangerous - tells me that oboe players have been known to deliberately roughen the bore of a new instrument with steel wool, to IMPROVE the playing.
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2003-11-18 04:28
I can completely relate to you on the issue of finding a good R-13 A clarinet. All the new ones I have tried recently have had stuff D/A's among other issues. They just weren't up to my standards. I was starting to think that that is just how r-13 A's are but they aren't. I am using a borrowed R-13 A now that is absolutley fantastic. I am not sure if this makes a difference but perhaps you should consider the nickle plated if you haven't, that's what this is. I know playing doesn't make a difference, it just increases your chances of having a better horn.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-11-18 09:10
In contrast to what beejay said, the saleswoman I purchased my clarinet through recently told me about her visit to the Buffet factory earlier in the year.
She said it was just like a normal factory - none of the factory workers actually played the clarinet, they just worked to specification, just like anyone who got a job in a factory.
For example, I worked in a cheese factory for a while when I was younger. I don't know anything about it or how it all worked, I just did as I was told.
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