 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2003-11-10 19:57
Is there any way to prevent cracks in a new wooden clarinet? I know there's no "sure fire way", but any suggestions to help? I'm going to get my first wooden CL for X-Mas and I want to do it right the first time and try to prevent having to do repairs, etc. Any suggestions are welcomed!
-M.F.G.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-11-10 20:08
Don't buy your clarinet on Friday the 13th.
Keep a rabbit's foot in your case at all times.
Throw salt over your left shoulder before and after each playing session.
Seriously (what, that wasn't serious?), your new clarinet should come with warranty and break-in information. Follow the advice given in the owner's literature. Unfortunately, a percentage of clarinets will crack no matter what preventative steps are taken. If it happens to you, it is not the end of the world. Just get it repaired and move on.
Oh, I almost forgot...A little extra prayer at night wouldn't be a bad thing either...GBK
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-11-10 20:33
Hi Maria,
As GBK has said above... a percentage will crack no matter what, and that is just a matter of luck. In addition, it might be useful to avoid the conditions that are more likely to cause cracking; i.e., rapid changes in temperature and/or humidity.
I have had no cracks in the same clarinet after 15 years but I will never know if it's because I have been lucky or if it's because I don't allow my instrument to experience rapid changes in temperature/humidity. In the Ontario climate, that can be difficult. Mine always rides in the passenger compartment of the car, never in the unheated trunk. I also oil the bore several times a year to keep it from drying out and to protect it from the enzymes in saliva.
If you're superstitious, re-read the first part of GBK's message (poor rabbits!).
May you never have a crack in your clarinet,
Hans
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2003-11-10 20:41
Thanks GBK and hans. I'm still pretty nervous. I feel like I'm expecting a baby or something! :-) I live in Florida... hopefully the messed up FL climate won't do anything to it? Ack!
-Maria
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-11-10 20:53
Some won't crack, no matter what you do.
Some will crack, no matter what you do.
For the others, use of a quality 'bore oil' MAY help. See Doctor's Products.
http://www.doctorsprod.com/DrsProduct.html
Avoid situations where the interior of the instrument is moist, but the exterior is in a low humidity environment for extended periods.
Post Edited (2003-11-10 20:55)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-11-10 21:46
If you're buying new ask the dealer because he is the one you will contact if it does crack. I guess a consensus would be what the above posters already said.
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2003-11-10 21:57
I'm buying online–so yeah, I don't really "know" my dealer I guess. I've decided on an Amati ACL601II-0. I need to ask my teacher first though. I don't know if she'll be okay with it, because her family has a business OF selling woodwinds and woodwind instruments. The only type of wooden clarinets they stock are Buffets and I'm not really a Buffet-y person so I passed it up. I wonder if she'll be okay with an Amati... I don't want to sound like an idiot! Sorry... okay.
Thnx,
MGF
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-10 22:21
Disclaimer - I'm not being compensated in any way for my views
Since your teacher won't be the one playing it, I don't think she should influence you into buying a certain type or not. You should be the judge of what you buy. Not her.
My teacher is a Buffet man all the way. Even though his teacher was Gigliotti who played a Selmer. I found that odd . . . . anyway, he measures everything against buffet. When he first heard me play he said, "Wow. That clarinet sounds pretty good. Is it a buffet?" And when I told him about different clarinets I was thinking about looking into in the future, he would say things like, "Well, as far as I know the selmer makes the clarinets with that 'ALMOST' buffet sound. And you know the yamaha copied the buffet! That's why they play so well!" Etc. etc. I mean no disrespect to him, cause he's a great player, but he's biased towards buffet.
I think you have good taste for the Amati. When I playtested one cause I was thinking about buying one, I found it to be great. I tested the same model you are getting. I thought it played much better than my current horn, and that was from the factory without any tweaking or adjustments!
Amati, in my opinion, is a GREAT horn. Especially for the money. I think it played better than the R-13s that I tried out, for half the price. Can you think of a better deal?
Send an email to your dealer asking about his/her warrenties and replacement policies and you may look into getting it adjusted after you buy it. For both, you may want to talk to Graham. He adjusted my buffet E-13 very well and I know he's a dealer of amati clarinets.
For the record, I'm probably going to buy a set of Amati's when I get out of college. A graduation present to myself.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2003-11-11 01:42
Thank you Alexi, for the lovely story. ;-) But yeah, I'm not going to let my teacher decide on my clarinet because, well, its MY clarinet. I'm so excited about getting an Amati!
-MFG
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-12 05:51
When I bought my Amati, it came with a small but official piece of paper which identified the warranty period as six months (the pre-printed "twelve months" was lined out and "six months" was rubber-stamped). It basically said whatever goes wrong is covered. That's about all I could decipher, as the whole thing was in Czech. Fortunately, the Clarinet has been almost completely trouble free.
Has any Clarinet ever cracked due to oiling of the instrument? If anyone knows that it has happened, please provide details.
Regards,
John
where the humidity can get mighty low, here on the edge of the Mojave Desert.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-11-12 07:07
My teacher recently told me about a theory he heard once....
Someone told him once that 'the best clarinets crack in the first few months. the crappy ones never do'. I don't know how true this is or what the reasons are, that's what someone told him though (he couldn't quite recall who). Needless to say my teachre doen't believe this, and I couldn't really tell you if it's true r not, I haven't had an instrument crack yet! Although, my new LeBlanc is still just under a month old...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-11-12 08:30
<<Has any Clarinet ever cracked due to oiling of the instrument?>>
How would anybody know!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-11-12 13:32
For what it's worth I second the recommendation to speak with Graham before you commit to the purchase
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-12 14:29
I own about 15 wood clarinets--Selmer, Buffet, Yamaha and LeBlanc--and none of them has every cracked (except the one that had an unfortunate encounter with a wall). I guess I am just lucky, but one thing I have always done is to swab the bore after every playing. Also wipe out those joint sockets, as well as the tendons. I've never had any of my instruments oiled and they frequently are carried in very cold weather after playing, although I try to minimize the temp contrasts as much as possible for stage to car to home.
I truely believe that some clarinets are destined to crack "no matter what", just like the floor boards on your expensive new deck. After all, it's only wood, and due to the growth rings, there are areas of instability "built in" already. Some wood grain is more stable, and some is not. You just are taking your chances with every new piece of wood the you purchase--deck planks, wood clarinets, and even reeds.
So do your best swabbing, oiling if that is what your manufacturer recommends, praying (ala GBK--whom I do not believe is officially ordained at the moment), and avoiding sudden, severe temperature contrasts.
And if it does crack, DO NOT replace the joint but rather have it repaired. 99% (don't even ask where that figure comes from) of the time, a properly repaired crack will not affect the playing of your instruments. But a new section, especially the upper, will make your instrument play musch differently, and often not as good as before. You are much better of with the old repaired section than with a new, unmatched replacement.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-12 15:38
The old Flemish harpsichord makers would dry the soundboard wood for long periods, and if it cracked, they were pleased. They would then cut a dart of wood, glue it into the crack, and use the soundboard in an instrument -- comfortable in the belief that it would crack no more, as stresses in the wood had already been relieved. Too bad something like that can't be done with wood for Clarinets.
And my poorly phrased point, Gordon, is that I've never heard of a crack in a Clarinet which had lost part of its moisture and then been properly oiled. Yet some makers advise against oiling. I think they're nuts, but then I don't build R-13s.
Regards,
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-11-12 20:27
"...Too bad something like that can't be done with wood for Clarinets. "
It is!k You wait until the instrument cracks, and then you fill/pin it.
Buffet advises against oiling NEW instruments. That, presumably, is because Buffet has already given them a good soaking, hopefully in a treatment that buffers moisture content across the timber for a few years.
The question is, when is a Buffet clarinet no longer 'new'? This, they don't specify.
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2003-11-12 21:20
It's worse to have a clarinet in a drier climate... right? I live in FL so it's pretty much hot and humid–except sometimes it's hot and dry. I've already talked to Graham a little bit and I'm not going to buy anything from anywhere until I get this all sorted out, at least in my head.
-MFG
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-12 21:47
If the clarinet is in a drier atmosphere, simply put in a humidefier in the case. Whether it be the old film case with holes and stuffed with fresh orange peels or an actual humidifier you can buy from a store, anything that will retain moisture will work. My instructor will open his swab and cover the clarinet with it so that the saliva that he swabbed out will put a little moisture in the clarinet case and spreads it (since the swab covers the entire inside) to each clarinet piece.
The harder problem to overcome in dry climates is how to prevent the reed from drying up. And your mouth as well. That's why many players will often have water next to them and sip it (to keep their mouth moist) or a juicebox (to keep those glands-a-salivating) so their mouth doesn't dry out while playing for an extended period of time.
You can't change mother nature, but there are QUITE a few ways to overcome it.
Buffet has introduced the buffet R-13 Greenline to overcome all these problems of dry/wet climates AND cracking. And from what I see on these boards, it sounds just as good as any other R13 out there.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-13 02:38
You want to try to keep inner and outer well about the same level of humidity. Since you're constantly playing into the clarinet, the inner wall gets plenty of moisture, which you try to get rid of some of it by swabbing your clarinet after playing. And then you try to even it out with a humidifier.
I'm not positive, but I think too much moisture on one side or the other can cause it to crack because one side of the wood is expanding at a greater rate than the other. Same reason you should always warm up your instrument before playing it just by holding it in your hands for a few minutes or letting it sit out for a little while.
I'm not really sure what too much moisture on both the inside AND outside would do. I could assume stuff, but I'd probably be wrong. Again.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-13 03:44
On the other hand, right here close to the Mojave Desert I am opposed to humidifying Clarinets while stored in the case. If that's done, the Clarinet will lose lots of moisture to the atmosphere when it's taken out. Then when it's put away, the humidified environment will drive moisture back into the instrument. The stress of expansion and contraction as the moisture goes in and out would be worse than just about anything else. That is, except freezing a really humidified Clarinet... someone might say, "When it cracked, it sounded just like a rifle shot!"
Search for some of my older comments on the topic of oiling, and you'll see my opinions on this topic. Opinions, of course, are like noses. Everybody has one, and some smell better than others.
Regards,
John
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-11-13 21:42
Yes, we could talk about this subject ad infinitum....and have. The only point I have to add is what I read in a Dover book on Wind Instruments. The comment was that the the clue to successful swabbing is not to remove all the moisture from the bore! An interesting thought and I've been following this advice recently. I hate to even put in print that I've never had a clarinet crack!! But Whoa on the Greenline thing. There's no guarantee against cracking on those either......but for different reasons. In short....anything will crack given the right conditions.......If you ever poured ammonia water down your sink connected to brass drain pipe you'll know what I mean.
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2003-11-14 12:04
So, if it does crack, how long does it usually take to get it repaired? And how long should one wait before sending it in? My Yamaha just cracked in the upper joint, but I have an All State conference coming up and a teacher I know doesn't want me to ruin my chances of making it into Honor Band when I get there. So she wants me to wait until afterwards to take care of it. That won't be until January, well, really February by the time everythings over with. Do you guys think this is a feasible option?
~Nicki
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-11-14 22:44
A typical time for me to pin and fill a crack would be an hour.
The rest of the time - days or weeks - is time the instrument is sitting around. That time depends on the attitude and work load of your technician, and what you negotiate with him/her.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-15 03:48
Waiting to have a crack repaired may not be a great idea. If a crack has developed, it could expand, depending upon the environment. It would be extremely embarrassing if your Clarinet suddenly stops playing when that crack suddenly penetrates through to the bore at just the wrong time.
As Gordon says, a good technician can repair an average crack (not including one that extends into a tone hole) in short order. And it does take a really good technician to properly evaluate a crack and decide the best fix. I repair my own Clarinets, but I don't do major cracks. My suggestion would be to get your Clarinet fixed ASAP.
If you do play it with the crack there, have some "Fun Stick" or "Handi-Tak" on hand so you can stuff a bit into the crack if it opens up unexpectedly. Maybe you should put some there anyway, just in case. And in an emergency, even used chewing gum can be better than nothing to plug a leak. It works for temporary pad stickum, too.
Regards,
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-16 15:28
A fine discussion, many good points brought up and commented on. I [and many others, I'm sure] attempt to view cracking of wood to be the result of expansion/contraction brought about by large [perhaps sudden] CHANGES [rate of] in humidity and/or temperature, to me the "delta H/T" problem. I've never had an inst crack while playing [heard one once!], very few in storage, do own several cracked ones bought at low price, after I judged them well-repaired and not leaking. I take care to minimize humidity swings [summer/winter] by home-storage location using hygrometers in several rooms, and regulate temp swings such as by keeping insts [in cases, partic. my best alto and bass cls] out of direct sunlite [home and cars], and by slow/careful warm-up for playing, using a lesser-good inst in hazardous situations, such as a mediocre bass cl while playing [comm band] out of doors for a fall "road race". Take care of them, my thots! Don
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