 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-11-05 05:15
I was just listening to a CD of English Clarinet Quartets with Thea King. It has the quintets by Cooke, Frankel, Maconchy, Howells, and Holbrooke. It's a really great CD.
I've seen some Thea King bashing while searching through old posts in the past (not a lot, but enough to make me take notice). I have about 5 of her CDs, and I don't have any problems with her (although she's not my favorite). Anyway, I think her performances on this CD are really great.
I'm curious if anyone who feels she's not that great has heard this CD, and if so, do you think she plays better than normal here? Or is it just my imagination (like I said, I think she's good all the time, but her playing - especially on the Maconchy which I'm listening to this very minute - seems extra great. Also, this music is a little more modern sounding than some of her other recordings I have, so maybe it just has a different quality to it that appeals to me).
Wondering what everyone else thinks that's heard it.
Thanks
Don Hite
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
PS - I'm insane enough to perform Bucolique in week from Thursday at a chamber recital... wish me luck! I've been practicing the last fast part (like the last 15 measures or so) like a madman. The last run (before the chromatic) that changes from triplet to duple always messes me up. Oh well, Contrary to most people I'd rather open my mouth (or clarinet case, in this case) and prove I'm a fool then keep silent and only be thought one! = )
[PPS - funny story, and completely unrelated to my original questions, BUT... in the Leduc version the fast part is marked dotted quarter = 189, which is obviously a typo, I'm pretty sure it should be eight=189... anyway, when I went to rehearse with my pianist on Monday, she was very apologetic before we even started and was like "I'm really having trouble with the fast section" (which she was trying at the outrageously fast, wrong tempo!) We corrected it and she was relieved and we actually got all the way through the first time - I would have loved to see her trying to practice it at dotted quart = 189 though...
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Author: RM
Date: 2003-11-05 15:12
Yes. I have heard that CD, it is quite good. Most people dont realize that Thea King is getting up there in years, and her playing has gone through a lot of changes as most anyone's does. Her recordings from her younger years are quite good, for "American standards".
This brings up an issue thats been on my mind, why do some Americans look down on British clarinet players? It seems that British clarinet players are the butt of jokes and bad remarks when talking about bad tone and musicianship.
I think this is something brought on by the teacher, years ago British players were a little wanky and free sounding compared to the traditional American style, and I can see why people would look at them differently. Through the years it has just become a standard factoid, British clarinet players sound goosy and honky. I myself have been told by 3 VERY respected American clarinet teachers that British clarinet players are aweful, so I wanted to investigate into why they said this. I think most people dont even take the time to LEARN FOR THEMSELVES, they just have a built in prejudice, its human nature.
I was shocked when I bought some cds of modern British orchestras, these musicians are fantastic! If you listen to the modern British players, orchestral and solo, which I am sure most people have not; you will think much differently. The sounds were incredibly lush and robust, very flexible, and the musicianship is really first rate. They blend incredibly well with orchestra, good intonation, technique, etc. I heard no wanky honk or goose tones.
As a comparison, when I listen to the young orchestral players here in the US, i hear good intonation, good technique, a pee shooter sound, and not much else, pure machinery. Now this does not go for all the young players here, but a good number of them. One more note, when I spoke with a number of these Brits, it seems that they are indifferent towards our playing; we have whiny thin sounds, and not much musicianship. I cant agree with them more. Maybe we can learn something here.
Well, i think it would be worthwhile to check out cds of the London Phil, Royal Phil, BBC Symphony, BBC Orch of Wales, etc, its surprising how wonderful they sound, and how musical they are. It might just shut some people up. Well, those are my thoughts, let the rebuttles fly!
Post Edited (2003-11-05 15:13)
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-11-05 19:40
I agree that many people look down on British clarinetists because of stereotypes that aren't true. My favorite clarinetist is Victoria Soames, who I think has the most beautiful sound of any clarinetist I've ever heard. I think people listen to British Clarinetists expecting bad sound, so they over-exaggerate anything they hear that they don't like.
The main english players I know of are Thea King, Victoria Soames, Emma Johnson, Walter Boeykens, and Gervase de Peyer (I probably have more than those 5 on recordings, but they're the ones that come to mind right away). With the exception of Soames (who's sound is quite distinct), I highly doubt most people could identify these players from any other players from other countries.
I have recordings of clarinetists from a lot of countries (America, France, Germany, England, Hungary, Japan and probably more) - and they all sound like clarinets to me! The differences between their sounds is no more than that which you might find between the clarinetists in a single ensemble...
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
PS - Janet Hilton is exempt from my above statements = )
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2003-11-05 21:31
Bashing?
Not the phrasing
Not the musicality
It is that sloshy sounding tone that sounds like the air is unsupported--breathy like puffing on a very soft reed. There is no thrill to it.
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Author: RM
Date: 2003-11-06 00:12
[ Snipped. See "Help/Rules - Ad Hominem". Argue about the idea, not the person. Mark C. ]
DH, my favorites are Richard Hosford, Robert Hill, Andrew Marriner, Robert Plane, Brymer, and the list goes on....
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-11-06 01:54
RM - don't feel out on a limb here ... they hate Aussies as well (tongue firmly in cheek).
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-11-06 04:51
Don't take it too personally, folks... they hate everyone.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2003-11-06 11:21
Isn't it, as 'theclarinetist' said, that we are all individuals with our own unique sound? Even though there may perhaps be national tendencies towards bright or dark tone etc., the main thing is to put the music over to the best of one's ability, and many different interpretations can be equally valid.
Having said that, of course everyone will have their own idea of the 'best' interpretation of a piece, but that doesn't mean that other renditions should automatically be dismissed as worthless.
I've been playing the clarinet for a relatively short time, and I don't have a teacher, but I try to play with the best sound I can, and I know all too well where it falls short. I occasionally play trios with a couple of friends, and we all three (all English - gasp!!!) play with a different sound individually, though I like to think we can blend well as required!
Joanna Brown
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-11-06 11:57
Don,
you can't put Boeykens as an English player.
De Peyer has lived in the U.S. for many years.
There are many fine English players you should listen to.
Start with RM's list and then see if any of your's remains a favourite.
jez
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-11-06 14:28
Stoltzman plays with more vibrato or as much as any English player.
Players like Marriner and Hosford use hardly any vibrato. Collins doesn't use vibrato....
School stereotypes apply far less these days than 30 years ago.
David Dow
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Author: RM
Date: 2003-11-06 16:12
Stoltzman does use vibrato, but sounds nothing like a British clarinetist. Hosford DOES use vidrato, check out any of his recordings, and Marriner adds something small here or there.
As a younger player familiar with the orchestral scene and the people winning jobs, I would say that school stereotypes do apply just as much as they did years ago, if not more. Now younger players are pressed to sound very traditional, that is what a lot of younger teachers are preaching.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-11-06 18:11
Lat time I heard hosford in London in 91 with the Phil I heard no vibrato...
As to Marriner there is very little in his sound.
Stotlzman has a very focused sound, but so did Frederick Thurston and he did not use vibrato...
players are individuals and enforcing a schools concept is quite restrictive in gaining a true appreciation of any performer's style.
Harold Wright was my private teacher for 3 years and my feeling was his playing went way beyond National boundaries...
I seem to remember hearing Andrew Marriner studied with him fround a fellow student at the University of Boston...
as for Reginald Kell he is the hardest player to copy and was incredible. His use of a 2 reed on a very open facing goes to show the clarinet is about individuality....his Brahms Trio is a great record!!! Not for all tastes though....
David Dow
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