 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BARRY
Date: 2003-11-04 17:14
I recently purchased 2 Vandoren MPCS (B45 dot and B45 lyre) and was warned they could tarnish my silver-plated keys.
I didn't quite believe the salesgirl and left the items together in their case for 48 hours.
It took me two full hours to get my clarinets presentable again and they real need to be taken apart.
Has anyone else had this experience with Vando MPSs.
IF it is generalised then this should be publicised and they should be boycotted until they solve the problem!
barry
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Author: marcia
Date: 2003-11-04 17:21
I have had a Vandoren mouthpiece for about 8 years now and my 15 year old silver plated "A" still looks shiny and new. Perhaps the material used is different from what is was back then??
Marcia
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-11-04 18:06
Hmmm. I have two Joue Jolie inexpensive metal ligatures I put into service at the same time. One I keep with on my M13 Lyre in my case with my old student horn, the other I keep on my crystal mouthpiece with my pro horns. The lig with the Vandy is badly tarnished for no apparent reason, while the other is sparkling clean.
Still, back when I kept the Vandy with my good horns, I never noticed it tarnishing the silver keys.s
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: ClarinetPunk
Date: 2003-11-04 18:55
I havent see that happen with my clarinet, but i have with my ligature, i have a Vandoren M15 and a silver optimum ligature. It tarnishes due to a reaction between the silver and the rubber.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-04 19:05
All plastic and rubber materials "offgas" (release vapors from plasticizer ingredients and whatnot) to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the material and its age. This release of vapors decays exponentially, starting at a high rate with new material and eventually reducing to almost nothing, after days, weeks, or even years. Example: the film that eventually builds up on the inside of your automobile windshield is deposition of vapors which offgassed from the vinyl dashboard (the rate accelerated by exposure to sunlight --- and after a few years of that there's almost no plasticizer left in the vinyl and the dashboard cracks and splits). What I suspect is happening is that Vandoren may currently be making their mouthpieces from a compound using a more volatile plasticizer (or a greater amount of the same plasticizer) than before, and it's being released from new mouthpieces and tarnishing silver. Older mouthpieces would have either completed the majority of their 'offgassing phase' and/or the older material formulations released less vapor to begin with. Dr. Omar, Don, any other chemists in the audience with a more correct answer?
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-11-04 20:16
David, your speculation about outgassing of any volatile plasticizers may well be correct, although it would surprise me if these were incorporated in mouthpieces. But if correct, would this mean that these mpcs would crumble after a while?
Personally, I have had no problem whatsoever with storing a recent VD B45 in my case with my silver-plated horn.
Henry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-04 20:32
Dave - I agree with your assessment of what may be happening. Incidentally TKS re: new-car windshield film, I had never associated it, but with us non-smokers, I had wondered about it!! The additives to the plastics OR hard rubber [it may still have sulfur cmpds as crosslinkers] may well be "out-gassimg". Do the mps "smell" maybe more new than later?? Does the tarnish "clean-up" like silverware? It might be wise to store a new mp outside of the case for a while, at room temp or [only] slightly above to hasten the degassing, or at least to separate it from any silver. As far as I know, I have no silver plate [my Selmer alto keys are very shiny, possibly protected silver-plated?] Any thots Omar? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BARRY
Date: 2003-11-05 07:13
yES? MY vANDO mpcs PURCHASED UP TO 5 YEARS AGO NEVER POSED A PROBLEM.
It's only those I purchased this year.
I am told the problem is general.
Also I note a lot of people have had their MPCs for 8-15 years.
Our experience in France is that they rarely last more than 2/3 years, depending on how much you play and how they're treated.
barry
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-11-05 14:52
Studied in France for one year at Ecole Normale et Superieur de Musique with Guy Dangain and never once did he mention anything about the mouthpiece being the source of tarnishing. \
The atmoshere in Paris is very acidic and contains incredible pollutants from automobiles that this alone would wear holes in the exterior of brick buildings...
as to tarnishing the mouthpiece that Dangain was using was an ancient 5RV Lyre ...so he disagreed with the theory all Vandoren's should be replaced after a few years////
David Dow
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-11-05 22:19
It used to happen with some Selmers also. Some of the old HS's stank, burnt rubber smell, to high heaven and definitely tarnished anything silver in sight. I had to shelve the one I bought it made me sick to play. I had to jump through hoops to get something done about it but they eventually exchanged it for a C85.
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Author: lycfmtkl
Date: 2003-11-06 13:57
Barry
I always put a Vandoren M40 MPC in the same case with my clairnet with silver plated keys. Both the MPC and clarinet were bought brand new a few months ago. I found that the sliver plated keys start to trun grey since 2 months ago. Is it because of the same reason ?
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-11-06 14:26
Some players bring a separate case for their mouthpieces to the gig for some concerts...
David Dow
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Author: Amy
Date: 2003-11-06 22:40
When I purchased my Buffet E-13, I treated myself to a new mouthpiece too. I bought a B-45 and I, too, was warned not to leave it in the case as it would tarnish the silver plated keys. I honestly thought that when he told me, he had heard a rumour and was quite gullible. Can it still tarnish even if the mouthpiece is clean? Is it something to do with not cleaning it after playing? I clean my mouthpiece and I leave it in the case with the clarinet because I thought that he only meant to leave it out until it was dry.
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-11-06 23:06
Yes, Amy, but have your keys tarnished since then? That's really the question.
Henry
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-11-08 02:06
David, I am in a quandry (which is different than Northern Iowa). You know I play a hard rubber Bass you fixed up for me. Does this not then mean that I should take "Beano" before I play in public in case I "offgas'?
Bob A
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-11-08 18:31
My Vandy mouthpiece tarnishes everything, so does my son's.
We had a competition to see who could get the most tarnish on their optimum lig. He thinks they look cool with all the colors and blackness.
I let him win.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-10 14:58
Bob A,
You must ask your wife (not me) about the Beano --- I don't have to live with you, she does.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-11-10 17:48
Variability in vd mps regarding outgassing or whatever it is could be related to the compound recipes, age of the mp after mfgr. , vd finishing procedures or packaging methods. I always use the mp space in the case for a spare barrel and keep mps in a separate case.
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