 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TheSaxyOne21
Date: 2003-11-03 22:51
Hello,
I have a couple of questions about ligatures. Is it just me or do they really not make all that much of a difference? I have recently purchased a Vandoren Optimum ligature, and it seems to not make all that much of a difference tonally. It is somewhat easier blowing, with the right plate. I am considering returning it and getting some jazz and other music books instead. Would this be a good thing to do?
About the Optimum in particular, what plate do you prefer best? I prefer plate 3 (4 dots), it seems to be the easiest to play on, but the 1st one (waves) is nice as well.
thanks,
Jaimie
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Author: krawfish3x
Date: 2003-11-03 23:04
i love the optimum ligatures, i have one for clarinet and one for sax. they do a great job of sealing the reed to the mouthpiece which solves a lot of squeaking problems. it also lets the reed vibrate freely. i would keep it if i were you.
I prefer using plate 2 on clarinet(horizontal lines) and plate 1 on sax(vertical lines, or waves)
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-11-03 23:45
I have three of them (1 for clarinet, 2 for saxes) and am completely satisfied until I find something significantly better. I agree that the ligature doesn't make a huge difference, but I like the Optimum's ease of use.
Hans
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-04 14:57
I use the Optimum lig with my soprano and bass clarinets and am pleased with the sound and response they allow. I use the plate with the parallel bars (Wave??) because it seems to play the same as Bonades models but without the constant readjustment hassel. My previous A & Bb ligs were Winslows, Bay, the Laurie "Magic Window" and Bonade reverses. I like the Optimum lig with its parallel plate above all of these. On my saxophones, I still use the Winslow lig (older vintage models) because of the rich overtones they allow in the sound. But on soprano clarinet, I prefer a more focused or pure tone quality that efficiently projects through the ensemble.
However, I believe that no matter what ligature or other piece of equipement comes "into play" in your clarinetting, you will always produce the sound that results from your own oral configuration and your acquired (learned) mental concept of "how you want to sound". For me, I will sound pretty much the same on any ligature (or clarinet, mouthpiece, reed, etc), but the Optimum makes it easiest for me to produce that sound that I want on clarinet.
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Author: ClarinetPunk
Date: 2003-11-04 18:59
I use the optimum ligature on my Bb and Bass Clarinet and i love them. Its all mainly a players prefrence, what sound youre looking for and the ease of playing.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-11-04 20:11
I've been very happy with my Optimum ligature. It made such a difference to my sound, but then my teacher said that for him it was a waste of money. So there you go.
What I like about it, too, is that with one twist you can remove or attach your reeds.
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Author: stickpoet
Date: 2003-11-04 20:42
I have been using the Optimum with the horizontal (#2) plate over the past several months and extremely pleased (almost orgasmic) so far. My most enchanting setup recently is Fobes barrel, Pomarico diamond mouthpiece, and the Vandorin Rue Lepic #3 reed with the Optimum clamp. Yes, I'am kinda gaudy in my choice of taste.
Practically speaking, the Optimum is quick and easy to handle. Like my well-adjusted wife. It gives me a little metallic sound, as opposed to that burly, dull, clumsy, a little too round, woody one. I used to have the black leather ligature thingy that took me forever to adjust and screw before I blow. Now with the Optimum, the timber of my sound is fancier. The texture is sexier. According to me and some sophisticated others.
I am lucky to have the Optimum. Until proven otherwise, that is, like the red-haired Mark guy said at Jerico Turnpike, Long Island, this past Saturday fixing my R-13 even though I did not ask. To my higher level of satisfaction.
Post Edited (2003-11-04 20:54)
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-05 14:38
Stickpoet wrote: "is quick and easy to handle. Like my well-adjusted wife."
Reed adjustment is one thing, but....................(please elaborate)
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-11-05 15:48
Hope he didn't use Ridenour's ATG method on the wife . . .
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-11-05 18:01
It's a good thing she gives a clear metallic sound instead being burly, dull, clumsy and a little too round.
Sorry, but we just had to.... We know what you mean though!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2003-11-05 19:16
i use the optimum mainly because it's really fast to put it on the mouthpiece. i'm still not sure if it's better than the vandoren master series ligature. soundwise it is the same but just easier to use. with a pomarico crystal mouthpiece (which is sometimes use) it's not that great cause there is that small dot on the back of the mouthpiece, but with my main mouthpiece it works fine.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-11-06 10:32
I don't like the optimum, it just doesn't play as well as my Bonade inverted. That said, it comes a close second! The Optimum and Bonade are WAY WAY WAY ahead of any other lig I've ever tried.
Although, the best lig. I've ever tried was a Windslow. They're rare, I've never been able to get my hands on one! Hint hint... LOL
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-11-06 12:33
Albert Alphin's place used to keep the Winslow lig. last year, maybe still does?
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Author: bp (F)
Date: 2003-11-07 12:03
I know from Jean-Paul Gauvin himself at Vandoren's that the main (only?) advantage of the Optimum ligature is its "screwery" (mechanism?).
I fully agree with that.
Since I play with it I much appreciate the easiness to adjust the reed.
I prefer the n° 1 plate that I call the one with the "seagull wing" instead of the waves...
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Author: William
Date: 2003-11-07 14:37
For the record, although John W is a good friend of mine and I was "in on" the early testing of his ligs, I do not like his Winslow Ligaure on the soprano clarinet because they tend to allow too many overtones to sound above the fundamental resulting in a sound that is rather bright, "etherical" and difficult to work with in an ensemble (but good for solo work). However, just yesteday, I ordered a bass clarinet lig--on a months long waiting list (John makes these things in his basement and is waiting for a new parts shipment to arrive)--and I do like and use older, "vintage" models on all of my saxohone mpcs (metal and hard rubber) because of the rich sound they generate.
And, I agree with LeWhite regarding the Optimum vs the Bonade "inverted". However, I prefer the "close second" Optimum because, by its design, it eliminates the constant readjustment hassel that comes with the Bonade original (and I can afford to buy them).
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-11-07 16:56
About a year ago I borrowed an Optimum ligature. I recall that I liked the sound that plate 3 created (the one with the 4 dots). However, after a while, I noticed severl things: my reeds ended up having little dents in them at the four corner points and there was a decrease of resonance. I played it for about a week and I asked my fellow musicians if they heard any difference from my inverted Vandoren: no. I stopped using it. My reasons were this: if the Optimum ligature made no difference then why should I tolerate my reeds getting all those little bumps on them.
I do agree that the ligature has very little impact on tonal quality. I've borrowed several ligatures, rubberbands, tape, string and I've noticed extremely slight tonal differences.
Take care,
Ron Jr.
Post Edited (2006-03-06 16:24)
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Author: fred-jazz
Date: 2003-11-07 19:44
I've been asked the ligature question many times and have some good opinions. First of all, I've played clarinet for 30 years and make a living doing it. I play mostly jazz but also classical, shows, and teach. My major in college was physics, and a little knowledge of how the sound is produced wouldn't hurt.
The reed must vibrate, for this reason many have suggested a loose, rubbery ligature. Anyone who has ever held a ruler over the edge of a table and snapped it knows this is false, the harder you hold it the better that works. The point where the reed is attached needs to be fixed, stationary, in physics terms a node while the tip of the reed is the free end, the antinode. Any ligature which holds the reed firmly and solid against the mouthpiece will work. Make sure the facing of the mouthpiece is good, leaks do affect sound. And finally, unless you put your lips BELOW the ligature ( not recommended ) it probably doen't matter much unless your reed is slipping. Get an inexpensive but reliable one, clean the facing of your mouthpiece regularly with a soft cloth to get rid of build up, and change your reed often, and put the stupid ligature question to rest.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-07 20:41
fred-jazz,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for injecting some actual science and common sense into the discussion! Now, if you wouldn't mind addressing the following popular clarinet 'urban legends':
--- Clarinet 'blowout'
--- The effect of clarinet body material
--- Mouthpiece-to-barrel exact bore matching
--- Frank Kaspar's Magic Mouthpiece Facings
--- Synonymous Botch
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Author: stickpoet
Date: 2003-11-08 05:33
The way my ligature tightens my mouthpiece is mighty important. Delicately important. Whether it is optimally snug, a little too tight, etc., etc.
The way my lady embraces me is horrendously important. I mean it. On the strength of my lady holding on to me with a certain degree of force and ease, I sing. I really sing to my heart's content.
Of course my barrel is crucial. So is the entire body of my instrument. Not to mention the reed and my darn embouchure. The way my ligature clasps me enables me to sing in spite of myself. By the way, the Optimum ligature definitely damages my reed. Ouch. Ouch. Oooh. Ahaaa. Ooooh.
Surely this is no science. And, allow me to opine that it’s a matter of taste and subtlety.
With fondness, Ryan...
Post Edited (2003-11-08 05:40)
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