 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2003-10-30 02:30
Has anyone else been hunting for a good A clarinet with no luck? I have been hunting for over a year but for some reason the new R-13's I have tried have a nasty grunt, an overly stuff D/A, intervals arent' very clear. Has it become a thing of the past to find an R-13 A that could match the Bb?
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-10-30 03:00
Yep.
Get the least expensive, clean version you can find and have it adjusted by the aftermarket shops out there.
OR -
Have a look at other makers. The Yamaha YCL-CS A should be a good match, it's a very similar design, with some adjustments to redress the problems you mention.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-10-30 11:05
Talk to some of the major music suppliers - I hear Lisa Aug(Can't spell her name correctly so I won't even try) at IMS can find some pretty nice ones. Just try as many as possible, I'm sure you'll find something eventually!
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-10-30 12:01
You can find some good ones, but may have to try quite a number. Another option- I have known some people who end up with an RC and find it much better. Try some of those and see how it works.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-10-30 13:36
The R-13 A clarinet has a design flaw. The register tube is the wrong size and length, causing the "grunt" you noticed in the high register. Av Galper makes a preplacement tube that cures the problem. Go to:
Avhram Galper
679 Coldstream Ave.
Toronto,Ont M6B 2L6 Canada
Email: agalper@pathcom.com
Tel: (416) 783-5520
Other people make similar replacements. Hans Moennig was well known for doing the job.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2003-10-30 22:35
Another oxymoran...."good" R13a.
The register tube problem was addressed on Tom Ridenours LeBlanc Opus/Concerto designs.
I have never found an R13A that plays better than my own 1964 vintage model--and I went through about a hundred one day when the factory was still in Libertyville, IL hoping to find one better in tune and with a clear "bell B. I do not like the RC models--too "tubby" a sound and sluggish response. Am now playing my LeBlanc Concerto A--great intonation, response and clear bell B, but not quite that great Buffet sound (can't have it all, I guess)
Good luck with your search--hope you find your "dream" R13A (another oxymoran??)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-10-31 05:06
William, I'm playing Concertos, I find it BETTER than R13. I also don't think "that great Buffet sound" exists... It's all in the person playing it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-31 16:20
Hey Buffet Mafiosi,
How come the biggest name in clarinets can't design an instrument with a proper register vent? Huh? Please explain!
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Author: William
Date: 2003-10-31 16:30
LeWhite wrote: I also don't think "that great Buffet sound" exists... It's all in the person playing it.
LeWhite--you are mostly correct. The individual clarinetist is somewhat "born with" his own sound due to the configuration of his oral cavity and his (acquired) mental concept of quality. But the Buffet line of clarinet does have a certain subtile "ring" or clarity in its sound and that I was referring too.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-31 16:40
Dave Spiegelthal asked:
> How come the biggest name in clarinets can't design an instrument with a proper register >vent?
I would say it is probably due to the nervousness of Boosey & Hawkes (Music Group) to change anything at all in their most profitable line (R-13) of clarinets. All their most recent "changes" were incorporated in their other lines (Vintage, RC, Festival, etc..)
After all, what fun would a Buffet R13 A clarinet be without an A5 that grunts and an F6 which is flat? ...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-31 17:19
GBK,
But why didn't Buffet get it right in the first place? We're not talking rocket science here (I can say that because I'm a bona fide 'rocket engineer') --- with all of Buffet's design, manufacturing and testing capabilities, why did they release, then produce for many years, a clarinet with a fairly significant and noticeable design flaw? Cost-cutting is not a valid excuse, as this is (or at least was) Buffet's top-of-the-line clarinet, a rather expensive instrument considering it is (looking at it from a product standpoint) a relatively simple device with fairly low materials costs and nothing in the way of innovative design risk or R&D costs to amortize (let's face it, the standard Boehm clarinet really hasn't changed in almost 100 years). I've played enough marginal or merely adequate R-13s to not be impressed with what they do for what they cost. I liken them to Ford F-150 trucks --- hot sellers, reasonably competent, with a reputation that far exceeds their actual capabilities, and a huge profit margin per unit (I've read that Ford realizes on the order of $10,000 US profit per F-150 truck, which is the single largest-selling vehicle in the world, I believe). Buffet should do better, and they should have gotten it right from the start, regardless of the alleged nervousness of their owners or the deplorable pressures of providing 'shareholder value' and profitable quarterly earnings statements.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-31 19:53
Dave...
I certainly agree with your logic and your questioning of modifications that should not be too difficult to remedy.
As I stated, Buffet basically says: "Here is the R13 A clarinet - take it or leave it. If you want something different/better we have other models. We know that it is not perfect, but you have to work around the tuning and response imperfections."
Obviously, many players do not find the faults of the R13A to be enough to dissaude them from purchasing one. Peer pressure? Perhaps. The cache of owning a Buffet? Perhaps. The belief that the Buffet A clarinet has a quality not found in other A clarinets? Again, perhaps.
I do not know what the cost would be to alter the production line machinery to incorporate the changes which we all would like to see. That very well could be a deciding factor (especially in the manufacturing of clarinets where the profit margin is not huge). Again, I think the nervousness (and possibly tradition) on the part of Buffet not to make a major design change (even if it is for the better) on their flagship model is the biggest reason we still see the present R13 A clarinet, warts and all...GBK
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-10-31 20:34
Now if they could design a decent cannon that fired diapers, I would be impressed... something useful for the home-defence arsenal.
I already managed to get a decent high F out of my Paint Ball gun; you just need properly ripe cherry tomatoes, and a neighborhood cat doing it's business in your pachysandra patch...
*******
I think it comes down to tooling costs and the necessity of market change.
If people keep buying the item, as is, and sales don't slip... why innovate?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-31 20:45
"If people keep buying the item, as is, and sales don't slip... why innovate?"
Why? Because you can go on for a while selling the same old tired product, but better products will come on the market, and gradually your sales will slip, and slip, and eventually the 'newcomers' will eat your lunch --- happens in every industry, just look around. American car manufacturers sat on their laurels until the Japanese ate their lunches in the 70s; closer to topic, Boosey & Hawkes kept selling the same medium/large-bore clarinets with "built-in intonation problems" for decades and decades until people stopped buying them, and Leblanc has been selling the same defective alto and bass clarinets since dinosaurs roamed the earth, but I'd be willing to bet their sales of those instruments have been or are declining now that Buffet and Selmer are FINALLY making bass clarinets that play in tune and don't force the player to sit on the edge of his/her chair with nose in the air and instrument tilted back at a 30-degree angle.
Who once said, "innovate, or die!"?
Lemme know when you've begun marketing the diaper cannon --- please make sure it also can handle training pants, I need it right away for my 2-year-old............
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