 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-10-23 12:14
I've just had a lesson with a new clarinet teacher. She wanted to try my setup to see if it worked well, etc. Well, when she played it, she got this extremely stuffy and unfocused tone! It was nothing like what she played on her clarinet. Apparently, after some testing, we both believe that the problem is the mouthpiece, and she claims that the mouthpiece makes lower-register notes extremely hard to play, and she's surprised I can even make a sound on them. I tried some of her mouthpieces, and they really didn't give a very nice tone for me, even though they were somewhat less resistant. However, I don't find any huge problems with my setup, and I really don't find the low register to be that resistant. What possible reasons could there be for this? I've always assumed that a more experienced player would have more tolerance in terms of instrument quality because they can make up for deficiencies in the setup. However, I suppose this isn't always the case? Have any of you ever had a student like me? Ever heard of anything like this?
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-10-23 12:29
Actually, I beg to differ on this whole point.
Many many times, on this Bboard, I've heard "[Insert famous clarinetist here] could play just as well on a [insert most awful student model here]!", but I believe this to be completely untrue.
A professional has a professional model clarinet. They have the money to buy plenty of mouthpieces to find the one they sound best on, and plenty of money to go through reeds and find good ones. Basically, they have a great setup that works for them very well. They have absoloutely no reason to change anything, because they can get away with almost anything.
Now, take a student for example. They probably play an an instrument that is much less ideal for them because that is all they can afford, or maybe weren't experienced enough to choose the best one. They probably have the mouthpiece that their teacher egotistically MADE them purchase for a ridiculous sum, and they probably play in a style that doesn't suit them, but again, the teacher's ego has forced them to play this way.
The student does not live a comfortable life when it comes to music and what they play. The professional, albeit having worked very hard all their life, are very comfortable with what they're doing. So telling you what's 'wrong' with your setup and how you play is no big deal to them. In fact, your teacher probably hasn't even realised what she said. Your sound, your setup, and the way you play doesn't match hers, so this is a problem.
What do I think? I don't think you have a problem, I think SHE has the problem. You find your setup fine, she doesn't. It's blatantly obvious that you play in a different way to her, and probably will never play in a similar way, unless she completely rebuilds your technique.
Oh, and professionals don't have to deal with defficiencies in setup, because for them, there are none. Students are in the toughest position of all, because we have to answer to a higher power. They don't. But think ahead; one day we will no longer be in this position.
Feel free to print this and take it to your teacher, I'd love to hear what she has to say; she sounds like my teacher and at times he finds me difficult to deal with because I try so hard not to let his ego in the way of my learning.
We're paying for lessons, and if teachers think they can get away with telling us 'how it is', they're going to have to think again because I make sure my teachers WORK for their money. And darn it why should WE work any harder because our teacher wants us to sound like them?!
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-10-23 12:37
LeWhite,
Can you tell us where you live?
If all the professional musicians there have 'plenty of money' to spend on reeds, mouthpieces etc. I want to move there.
jez
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-10-23 13:05
Beg to differ with Finzi
"The professional, albeit having worked very hard all their life, are very comfortable with what they're doing."
Professionals go through as many trials and tribulations as any other player. It is not always comfortable and certainly not always easy. Those of us who make our living from this industry work very hard and spend a lot of unpaid time getting things as right as we can. It is not a cruisy comfortable ride, it is hard work and frustrating at times.
"Oh, and professionals don't have to deal with defficiencies in setup, because for them, there are none. Students are in the toughest position of all, because we have to answer to a higher power."
We have as many difficulties in set up as anybody else. We answer to the higher power of economics. Stuff up and you lose the gig.
"They probably have the mouthpiece that their teacher egotistically MADE them purchase for a ridiculous sum, and they probably play in a style that doesn't suit them, but again, the teacher's ego has forced them to play this way."
A generalisation made from a bad personal experience, this teaching style is more typical of those who are just teachers and not professional players.
Point of agreement
"You find your setup fine, she doesn't." If you are happy with what you are using keep using it.
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-10-23 13:10
LeWhite wrote, regarding professional clarinet players: "They have the money to buy plenty of mouthpieces to find the one they sound best on, and plenty of money to go through reeds and find good ones." I have read elsewhere on this BB that "generalizations are always wrong" and IMO this is a prime example.
Hans
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-10-23 15:30
Trust the Tuner...
If you can play with facility, at pitch and a tempo... things are fine.
If you differ with the Teach about tone color - fire them. It's YOUR money!
*******
When a decent machine made mouthpiece can be had for $55 USD or a genuine, hand-crafted example for under $250, no reason you can't scrape some pennies together for a test, is there?
I recommend medium facings, with medium tip openings with medium strength reeds... The Buddha method (or was it Bubba?)...
The idea is to have flexibility in the rig so that YOU may add inflection.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-10-23 16:46
One aspect of a set-up that doesn't translate well from one player to another is the facing length of a mouthpiece. I can play any tip opening on a mouthpiece - given an appropriate reed. However, I really can't play a long facing length - it requires me to put too much mouthpiece in my mouth.
If your mouthpiece has a long facing length and your teacher plays a short facing length, that could explain your observations.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-10-23 17:23
As with many student gripes, I think that we need a few more facts here. I would like to know the ages and playing levels of both Moose and LeWhite. LeWhite obviously has an axe to grind, and states from the get-go that his/her teacher finds him/her difficult.
Moose6589 may not be telling us the whole story, or may not be privy to what the teacher was thinking when she asked to play on the mouthpiece.
Many young students have very pleasing sounds which come from setups and embouchures that don't cut it in terms of intonation, articulation, etc.
We are trying to pass judgement on one or more teachers on the word of students who might not be more than 12 or 13 years old, and whose ability/accomplishment levels are unknown.
I for one would like some clarification in this area.
Allen Cole
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-23 17:59
I have now read the post from moose6589 four times. I have yet to see that the teacher is insisting that a different setup is needed, only that she has difficulty using it and moose does not. So?
The acoustic activity associated with producing the Clarinet's tone also involves embouchure, among other individual personal characteristics, and no two people are the same. What's great for me might be awful for everyone else on Earth, and I don't care.
The best Clarinet teacher I ever had did not try to help me sound like anyone but myself. He listened to me play, then suggested that a Woodwind G7 mouthpiece would likely go well with what I was doing. I told him I had been using a G7* for two years. He nodded and said "That's fine." He did not use anything close to that MP when he played Clarinet.
And getting into a discussion on "The Touch of the Master's Hand" question of the superior player performing with a mediocre instrument? Well, there's an argument that could go on forever.
Regards,
John
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-10-23 18:02
I teach plenty of amateurs that have beaucoup bucks falling out of their pockets, and they are completely unbashed about spending whatever it takes to get the optimal setup. In fact, to make my own sweeping generalization, there are probably more students with access to deep pockets than there are professional musicians of the same means. Acknowledging though that many do not have unlimited funds to blow on gear, you make the best with what you have.
Now, the assertion that pros cannot sound great on nearly any setup is completely false. I have had direct, in-the-room experience with many great players of the past and present who need not be named, and they would make magic with whatever you handed them. Perhaps they couldn't play with their absolute finest tone and most precise articulation, but the core of the sound, the center of the pitch, and the technique came through fine. In my own experience trying other rigs, I find I have to work harder and make adjustments to compensate, but I can still get MY sound out of any clarinet that is in good working order.
All of this is a preamble to saying students (should) come to teachers to LEARN. I went to my teachers to learn how they approached the clarinet, what techniques and interpretations they could impart, and what setup (in their opinion) would help me achieve similar things. My students come to me for the same. Not in a million years would I dismiss what my teachers had to say because my approach was different. If we were that fundamentally incompatible, I wouldn't have belonged in their studios in the first place. Waste of the teacher's time, and waste of the student's time and money.
So Moose, you are paying your new teacher to impart her wisdom to you. I presume you did some due diligence and found her credentials and playing to be compelling enough to take lessons from her. If you respect her, follow her guidance and see what it does for your playing. If you do not, best to move on and find someone more to your taste.
LeWhite, when we work as professionals, we are getting paid to know and excel at our craft. That means having taken the time and invested the resources to play anything, any time, anywhere, and in any conditions because that's what the guy in the audience or on the other side of the recording booth glass is paying for. Unlike in the salaried world of the desk job, the hours pro musicians spend fixing reeds, trying ligatures, refacing mouthpieces, practicing scales, etc. is uncompensated and far from a luxury. It is an investment in being prepared for when you are sitting in rehearsal, concert, session, etc.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-10-24 07:29
Maybe I'm just not very articulate (No pun intended!).
My example was leading to the orchestral clarinetist, who has had his/her lifetime of trial and error to find what works for them, whereas students are expected to do good jobs on terrible intruments, and sometimes they may not know better.
Allencole, I'm 20, in 1st year of an undergrad degree in a music college in Australia, did 1st year last year at a different university that I wasn't happy with, I also went to a music high school and have been with this teacher for 4 years now. I play on new leBlanc concertos with a Greg Smith K mouthpiece, 3.5 Vandoren V12 (Sometimes Zonda or Gonzalez) and played on a Buffet R13 for the past 5 years.
I'm not 13 nor am I stupid. I generalise because it's better than mentioning specifics.
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