 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RWW
Date: 2003-10-21 18:21
I had the opportunity to try one of these Clarinets offered at less than $200. I had seen them in the stores and they "looked" really nice. Keys looked like silver plate and did not look fragile. Even though experienced players (and some on this bulletin board) had already told me they consider them to be junk, I expected to maybe discover that modern technology had discovered an economical way to make a decent beginner instrument. OK, even a very very beginner. I was not expecting a quality tone or even pretty sound. I was disappointed. I wanted it to be playable and tried very hard but I could not get it to play in tune with itself. The upper register was at best about a 1/2 step off from the lower register and no amount of adjusting the barrel length or embouchure could make it play in tune with itself. Using a chromatic tuner, I could adjust and make the upper register play reasonably in tune, but then it was not possible to play the lower register in tune without major adjustment at the barrel and vice versa. ........Now my question to BB readers: Why?? They can make recorders for around $20 that can play in tune. Isn't it a matter of getting the holes in the right place? I just don't understand why the technology hasn't developed to the stage where making a clarinet that plays in tune is easy (and cheap). I assumed the real manufacturing cost these days is in making it "sound" beautiful and user friendly. Is it possible the prototype Simba was good, but it was lost in poor manufacturing practices?....................My second question: What about the cheap beginner instruments in the catalogues of reputable dealers like Woodwind and Brasswind? I think they have some for about $300. Do they going to have similar tuning problems?..........My third question" What about the Simba flute and trumpet at less than $200 and the alto sax at about $300? Are they equally bad?
Thanks
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-10-21 19:49
Why would an apparently reputable dealer sell low quality instruments? Granted, not everyone can afford or wants the top-of-the-line professional instrument, but one should expect a dealer to have a minimal standard in what they sell. Selling instruments that won't meet anyone's expectations for reasonable playability would, I assume, hurt a retailer's reputation and lose future sales of better instruments, both from discouraging repeat business and discouraging beginners from continuing their study of music.
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Author: RWW
Date: 2003-10-21 21:40
So.......can the cheapest Woodwind and Brasswind clarinets be played in tune with themselves and others? Has anybody actually tried one of them lately?
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-21 23:21
1. Bad intonation can hardly be blamed on technology. If the acoustical design is rotten, terrible manufacturing technology will produce a piece of junk with rotten intonation. With a similar design, the very best manufacturing technology will produce a well-built instrument with rotten intonation. Clarinet warranties rarely cover rotten intonation, you may have noticed.
2. The English word for the Swahili "Simba" is "Lion." In my experience, lions do bite.
3. There is no technical reason why a low priced Clarinet must be a piece of junk. Serious price-shopping for a student instrument by reputable makers might surprise you.
4. Never having played any of the WW/BW low-end instruments, I'm also curious as to their overall goodness. Perhaps someone who has actually played one might be willing to post a report?
Regards,
John
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-10-22 00:46
Funny. When I opened this post I expected something about the clarinetist for Disney's "The Lion King" on broadway or something. Guess I was way off . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-10-22 03:57
A good rule of thumb is to avoid instruments bearing the name of an animal. Lark, Sylark, Parrot, Cobra etc.. None of these instruments work, or at least only minimally. They are manufactured on dodgy machinery by people who barely even know what it is they are making and being paid $1.00 a day. As an instrument repairer I am constantly amazed that retailers and wholesalers sell this junk. I am also equally amazed of the lack of caution or blatant stupidity of some consumers who purchase the things. I just doesn't occur to some people that a musical instrument such as a clarinet, flute or saxophone is a precision instrument. Even to an untrained eye it would seem obvious that these instruments have a zillion moving parts. The question should be asked, and it is by the more discerning often, as to how these things can be sold so cheaply. No one would dream of buying a new car as proportionately cheap, they would be suspicious immediately but many do not seem to use their brains when it comes to musical instruments which even to the untrained eye are complex machinery. I have even had band directors and other teachers recommending this junk and they should be drummed out of the profession.
As to the practice of retailers and wholesalers selling them. I do repairs for a number of wholesalers and retailers, as well as private, individuals so I get to see the industry from the inside out. I will not touch these types of horns either under warranty or as private repairs. I am regularly told by retailers that there is a market for them as people cannot afford the next level up, in our case generally a matter of AU$200 to AU$300 more. I find this unacceptable as these barley funtioning pieces of junk put more youg students off learning than they encourage. The retailers are just working on the fast buck principle and quite a number I speak to are not troubled by this, there are more reputable people who don't touch them. In my experience one of this type of clarinet generally starts to fail, ie. from its original funtionality or dis-functionality, after about 2 years. Common problems I have observed are 1) pivot screws falling out and going missing due to mismatched diameter, thread between screw and post ie. becuase they are made too loose, this also causes 2) too much play lengthwise in the keywork and therefore uncertain seating, leaks and squeaks. 3) Pads falling out because they have been improperly glued or in some cases even just wedged in the pad cup. 4) Posts loose on the body because of deficiencies in assembly or plastic fatigue. 5) Tenon joints off centre. 6) Body rings falling off as they have been glued rather than compressed. I could go on but the general idea is fairly obvious. Flutes and saxophones seem to be made of off the lightest gauges of metal possible. Gaurd holders and post regularly just fall of. They are nigh on unsolderable because there is no obvious penetration level.
As to the issues of scale. As an aside a $20 or less recorder does not play that well in tune either and would not be a choice for a serious recorderist. I have noticed with these type of clarinets that they are missing the 3rd register almost completely and the scale compresses even over the break. There are other intonation problems as well as voicing problems too numerous to mention here. There is a lack integrity out there with some people in the music industry who peddle this junk, it is musically counterproductive and all for the sake of a fast buck. CAVEAT EMPTOR!
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2003-10-22 08:39
How about instruments bearing the name of the meal which guests serve themselves from various dishes displayed on a table.....
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-22 11:20
icecoke12 said:
> How about instruments bearing the name of the meal which guests
> serve themselves from various dishes displayed on a table.....
smorgasbord ??? ...GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-10-22 14:27
Hey! My wife is Swedish. I will admit, however, that it's hard to keep a mouthpiece made of ice in good condition below the Artic Circle.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-22 16:44
Sweden - The country that uses real crystal mouthpieces ...GBK
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Author: Andreas
Date: 2003-10-22 17:49
As far as I know, there are no clarinets from Sweden.
There is an interesting folk clarinet "Meråkersklarinetten" from Norway.
Andreas
Sweden
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Author: ClarinetPunk
Date: 2003-10-22 19:18
Many of these cheap instruments (simba, first act, etc) that are out on the market right now are just what they are, CHEAP. Many repair shops will not even repair these hors due to how poorly they are made. Clarinets, for example, are all soft soldered together so when you heat up a key to change a pad it falls apart in 4 peices. The list goes on...
The First Act horns dont even have Serial numbers!!!!!
Post Edited (2003-10-22 19:24)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-22 20:56
As a distinct improvement, I understand one cheapie supplier does put a serial number on each instrument. The *same* serial number. Wow.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-10-23 17:01
There is no keeping some people from buying products for reasons other than quality. Indeed, quality may have no place in the selection process.
In the 1970's I had a friend who was a stringed instrument buyer for Grinnell's in downtown Detroit. He was a talented guitar player, and would search for the best valued instruments that played well and sounded well. But customers walked in and only wanted "bright red guitars", and he had to have them on-hand, no matter what quality. Since these instruments produced no complaints, it was safe to assume that they were never played.
A lot of people drove Trabant's and Yugo's. Not very far, but they did drive them.
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