 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-10-21 15:02
we have a very good local band with a really nice director. they play most 40 and 50 big band music. i have been meaning to look into joining them for about a year and finally give him a call.
He (director) was really a great guy and is in charge of the high school music program.
the bottom line is that he would love to have me join, BUT there is no need for a clarinet in the band. Bummer!!!!
Is this common ?
I guess I will play solo forever.
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-21 15:15
Bob,
You play the sax? Gotta play sax if you want to play big band --- nobody needs a 100% full-time clarinetist, I'm afraid.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-21 16:06
"...Gotta play sax ----------- nobody needs a 100% full-time clarinetist, ..."
wyatt... Welcome to reality. Not a pretty picture ...GBK
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-10-21 16:20
no i don't play the sax and don't want to play the sax.
now i know how Joseph and Mary felt when there was no room at the inn.
OK all clarinet player into the stable.
(maybe we can play turkey in the straw)
e
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-10-21 16:29
And when the time comes (and it likely will) when the band director has to cover a 30-40s swing-era standard with clarinet lead (i.e. Moonlight Serenade, Stardust, Goodbye or Sing, Sing, Sing) quietly sit there with a toothy grin, salute your sax, and enjoy watching the other sax players shrug their shoulders when he begs for a doubler...
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-10-21 16:40
Please don't give up. There may be some options to explore. For example, what's keeping you from starting your own jazz group? What's what I did. Two of my favorite horns are clarinet and c-melody saxophone. There's not much of a chance to play THEM in a big band! So, I put together a sextet and we're having a great time. But, I also wanted to play in a local big band so I purchased a vintage tenor for cheap and am using it in that group.
Another possibility is to talk with the director again and see if he might be able to do something creative for you. Do you improvise? If so, perhaps he could let you solo on several charts. Also, if the band has any arrangements calling for clarinet doubles perhaps you could cover those parts. I figure that something is better than nothing. But, if the group plays strictly saxes-no-double arrangements you'll have a problem.
David's advice is on the mark. If you're attracted to jazz and big band music, you really need to learn to double. It will open many more doors for you in the long run.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-10-21 16:53
PS....
Wyatt, if you want to hear a big band that made absolutely BEAUTIFUL use of clarinets find some recordings of the Claude Thornhill band from the late 40's. Duke Ellington certainly used clarinets to great advantage on many of his recordings. There are also a number of current big bands that make extensive use of clarinets and other woodwinds. Check out some recordings of Maria Schneider's jazz orchestra. The point is, clarinets CAN have a role in a big band. But, it often comes down to the director and arrangers having a broad enough vision...and knowledge of jazz history. Some band directors are limited to just what's on the printed score. It's sad to turn away some one like you who really wants to play. If I was the director I'd find a way to fit you in.
Good luck to you!
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-10-21 17:22
he is well aware of the role of the clarinet in the big band area. the problem is that none of his arangements have a clarinet part.
we live in a valley of 1000 hippie, redneck etc. the favorite instrument is the saw, banjo, guitar, penny whistle, and the old time jug. (only kidding)
anyhow i can't even find another person to play with. the band director did say he would try and find me someone.
there is always hope.›
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-10-21 17:31
My case is the reverse. When I joined a local big band, I only played alto sax. The book had quite a few arrangements that involved a clarinet lead but there was noone to play those parts. So I bought myself a clarinet a year ago, started to seriously practice, and I am now doubling on quite a few numbers. Great fun! But I agree with all the above comments urging you to pick up the sax. At least in the lighter genre, much more opportunity to play! And going from clarinet to sax is easier than the reverse. Good luck!
Henry
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2003-10-21 18:49
If you live in Lake County Illinois, we are desperate for clarinetists in our community college concert band.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-21 18:52
Around these here parts, many 'sax' players double at least competently on clarinet, and vice-versa. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether a big-band musician is originally a clarinettist or originally a sax player, and that's as it should be. I can't emphasize enough: if you want to play big band, or Top 40, or rock'n'roll, or blues, or just about any form of jazz except traditional or Dixieland ---- get good on saxophone! Clarinet is a wonderful instrument, but bemoaning its lack of acceptance by the ignorant Philistines will NOT get you a gig --- sorry to be so blunt, but I think most of the working musicians out there will back me up on this.
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-10-21 19:29
So it seems,
My son (who still plays and appreciates your ex-clarinet Wyatt) has decided he wants to be in jazz band at school next year. So, he's going for tenor, because that's what the first clarinet doubles in many shows and his HS jazz band could use more.
He has a nice loaner Alto until December, and I hope to find him a very decent used instrument before Christmas. Any advice out there?
Ginny
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-21 19:56
The above has well covered the music-front, in the 1930's I started cl, and by 1936 I had my first alto sax. It was obvious way back then too. Two "popular music" places where the cl dominates are of course Dixie and German Band. Even in the old G Miller cl-lead charts, it took a big bore Selmer with prob. a WIDE lay mp [and much guts] to be heard, unless amplified, tho the part could be heard when played on soprano sax!! To me its just a volume question, unless you are up in the altissimo full time. I have heard some of my grandkids TRY to be heard in high school "dance" "big" bands where F is soft, FF usual. HELP [for ears sake] Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-21 20:22
Ginny, if interested, contact me via my name above re: tenor sax. {Mark, her EM address is not listed as mine is, delete if improper] Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-10-21 21:02
Ginny,
I might be able to help you. I'm not an instrument dealer. However, all of my saxophones are truly wonderful vintage horns and I've gotten to know a number of trustworthy sources for good quality saxophones at reasonable prices. These are folks I've done business with and can recommend them to others.
You can reach me off-line at nancyandrog@earthlink.net. Just give me a general sense of what you're looking for, budget $$, and we'll take it from there.
Roger
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Author: OboeAtHeart
Date: 2003-10-22 02:38
Just a reccomendation to anyone.
If you play clarinet. WHATEVER you do, don't double Bari-sax. You'll have embochure issues out your tail on clarinet. You'll be miserable too; it requires no embochure whatsoever and is almost an insult to anyone's dignity as a classical or modern clarinetist. *sagenod*
Wyatt;
I know what it feels like to be rejected as a clarinetist coming into a Jazz band, but if you look around, maybe you can find a Dixieland group. It's mad fun to play that style and I certainly had a blast with the band directors in the local area at all county. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Or you can move to Florida. We've got some really good bands down here. Specially in Okaloosa county.
Keep hope, fellow Jazz-Clarinet! There's a light at the end of the tunnel.. (just make sure it's not a train... or a Tuba.)
Cheers.
-Jenne.
*~"The clarinet, though appropriate to the expression of the most poetic ideas and sentiments, is really an epic instrument- the voice of heroic love."~*
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-10-22 04:06
Oboe-at-Heart, just what is your experience as a clarinetist/saxophonist? You have just given some very questionable advice to potential players, and I would also question your assertion that playing bari sax is beneath ANYONE's dignity.
While in college, I managed to play bari sax in the jazz ensemble while holding down the E-flat clarinet chair in the Wind Ensemble. It took some work, but it worked out.
You might also ask recording artist Don Byron how he feels about playing clarinet and having bari sax as his primary double. While you're at it, you might ask Doc Kupka (Tower of Power) what effect the bari sax has on his oboe chops.
Bari sax is in fact an excellent double for the clarinetist who wishes to be in a big band. In these sax sections, 2 altos and 2 tenors are common to almost all eras. Most modern groups add a bari to this mix. Older groups had a clarinet on top. Given this, a clarinetist who wants to get the few clarinet parts available in big band literature would do well to play bari sax.
Clarinetist Harry Carney apparently didn't find it beneath his dignity to play bari sax in the Duke Ellington band.
And David...Hallelujah, brother, keep telling these folks the truth. As easy as it is for many of us to pick up a saxophone, there is truly no point in a good clarinet player having a woe-is-me attitude towards big bands.
Allen Cole
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-10-22 04:41
Hi, Wyatt
A big band in Philo??? ... will wonders never cease? I thought YOU were the only musician in the whole northern area. Well, if they don't have a written part for clarinet, how about taking up the string bass??? Just a thought - since you already play bass clarinet and have a feel for the lower/foundation parts. I've contemplated about what I'd like to play if ever I had to give up blowing horns and the upright bass always came to mind. I've been intrigued by them since I was a little kid; just never got around to trying it.
I've played, besides Bb clarinet, my 'first love' : soprano, alto, tenor, bari saxes - A and Eb clarinet, and more recently, bass and alto clarinet. A long time ago I took a shine to cornet and tenor banjo. None of this 'outside activity' hurt my Bb clarinet embouchure one bit - although some who know me well might be quick to tell you that I was never any good to begin with :\
During the eleven or so years I earned a living playing music, quite some time ago I might add, the clarinet and tenor sax were the mainstay.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-10-22 05:28
ron b: thanks for your suggestion about the string bass.
a friend of mine is making me one. all we need is an old wash tub, a broom handle and a piece of cloth line. that will put me in business.
I'm working on "that good old mountain due"
my wife was going to play the jug, but she can't find her uppers.(only kidding, it's her lowers she missing)s
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-10-22 06:36
Well, if you can't find a good piece of rope... I dunno - there're still a few washboards around
- ron b -
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Author: Tim K
Date: 2003-10-22 16:27
allencole's excellent reply said it all. Only one additional point--if you never play bari sax you miss one of life's most enjoyable experiences. And it's a great opportunity to really learn breath support.
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Author: RWW
Date: 2003-10-22 19:22
allencole and Tim K beat me to it, but I had to add that I play both bari and clarinet regularly (not quite daily) with a Wind Symphony, a Community Band, and local swing bands where I double. I also play clarinet and soprano sax with a small jazz group. I am primarily a clarinetist but absolutey LOVE the bari. I think it is something to do with those low notes. Other members of my family play bassoon, contra bassoon, string base, and electric base so maybe it is genetic. I think I should also add that once I had several gigs in a row along with working on a recording on the soprano and along with a vacation where I neglected the clarinet for about a month and was shocked how bad out of shape my embouchure had gotten. I mean really bad. It took me a week to get back in shape. Now I know I must keep up on the clarinet daily or suffer consequences. I suspect suspect playing the saxes contribute to the speed of losing clarinet chops.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-10-23 17:29
RWW, I did lose my clarinet chops about 17 years ago, playing tenor in a pop band and being lazy. It took a lot of practice to regain them, and now I practice clarinet before all other instruments, and spend community band time on it as well.
But as for bari sax, the voices of experience have come out. I have had the joy of playing clarinet-lead on Miller style stuff, and have had the joy of anchoring a sax section on bari. The latter experience may be even better than the former--particularly if you get to blow some bass clarient.
Young clarinetists, take heart. If you are learning the proper musical skills, you are by no means out of the loop.
Allen Cole
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