 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-10-18 00:37
Someone gave me a few vintage mouthpieces to "play with." Some of them were hard rubber and some obviously plastic.
But there were a few others that could have been either...it was hard to tell, especially since they didnt have the greenish patina of old rubber. These few seemed to have the weight of rubber and left a brownish powder on fine sandpaper like rubber, but for some reason they seemed superficially like plastic.
Is there some surefire way of determining which is which??
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
Post Edited (2003-10-18 00:38)
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Author: cujo
Date: 2003-10-18 01:15
Of course you can burn them. One will smell like burnt plastic and the other like burnt rubber.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-18 13:50
Often, the "shine" [light reflection] will help, hard rubber is a thermoset resin and is usually a bit "dull", while thermo-plastics tend to keep a shiny appearance. Also, HR is generally considered superior, so if the markings on the mp tend to appear "professional", expensive etc, that may differ from the cheaper "student" plastics. The color of the mp's powder and whether with heat [a match] it MELTS or just burns [as said] may help. There are both good and bad mps of both materials, those of mine , if not crystal glass are usually HR!. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-10-18 15:40
The thermoset plastics used with rubber can contain various other fillers which can affect the color and properties
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-10-18 16:22
When I'm not sure, I just rub the mouthpiece briskly on a sleeve or pant leg to warm it up a little (some prefer warm (not hot) water). I find that hard rubber tends to emit a slight sulphur smell, plastic is generally odorless.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-10-19 10:56
Actually,Jack, one can use a burn test for smell identification of some plastics but of course that's destructive. As I recall, nylon smells like celery.
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2003-10-19 15:03
I have a several Bettoney mouthpieces and frankly even the experts can not tell what it is made of. The Eb is clearly rubber cuz it is green, but the others are shiney yet heavy.
Does n e one kno what they used.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-19 20:57
BF - Those mps were prob. made back [or earlier] in the time period of the development of the first synthetic plastic materials, which were not good enough for mps, so my conclusion would be hard rubber. There were a number of the "crosslinking" chemicals for hardening the rubber which could give different appearances, sheens etc. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-10-20 01:35
Using the butt end (tenon) of the mouthpiece, rotate the mouthpiece briskly against fine sandpaper, 600 grit or so.
The resultant dust on the sandpaper will have a readily identifiable smell, if it's rubber.... "Hot car in July".
There will be brown dust on the paper if it's made of rubber.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-20 14:38
I've refaced a number of mouthpieces such as Boosey & Hawkes and the aforementioned Bettoneys, which are basically hard rubber but when sanded or ground produce a black (rather than olive-greenish) powder. While most hard-rubber mouthpieces seem to have a heavy sulphur content (hence the smell and olive color), some of them seem to be 'loaded' with something else that makes them more black, I suspect carbon black. Whether or not these formulations would be considered 'hard rubber' or 'plastic' or something intermediate, I don't know (Don? Dr. Omar?). Also, the Ernst Schreiber (ESM) company produces mouthpieces from a proprietary material they call "EPM" which, as I understand it, is basically a plastic with rubber filler --- it looks and feels like traditional hard rubber but is rather softer and doesn't file or sand real well because of the rubber filler (imagine sanding a car tire and you get the idea). So there seem to be many variations on the material theme, and once again, the bottom line is not the material itself, but what's done with it.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-10-20 15:09
So, do Bettoney mouthpieces reface well?
I see a lot of them going for big prices on online auctions.
They must be pretty good. I understand that they have a nice ring to them.
Maybe the material is resonant. I think they were made in Boston. Maybe the residual tea in the harbor has something to do with it.
Time for a crumpet.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-20 15:18
CPW,
The Bettoneys do seem to 'reface well', but so do many other brands and materials. I also originally suspected that residual harbor tea might be the reason, but was later corrected by a Bostonian --- apparently there's something in baked beans that gets into the mix and improves the resonance.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-10-20 19:38
you mean....we've been SCROD!!!
Maybe it is the stuff that wafts around Fenway.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-10-20 20:46
There are so many different rubber formulations, each with slightly different properties. The EPDM is especially resilient and commonly used for roof sheeting as well as other applications. The formulation used for old mouthpieces must be an early one ....maybe same as used in early telephones and other electrical insulators.
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