 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-10-13 15:30
Over a year ago I got braces and now I'm going back to school for my master's. I haven't played my clarinet in about 14 months. And I won't really be able to play for another 2 years. I played yesterday for the first time and I'm really rusty. By the time I finish my education, in two years, I will probably need to relearn major aspects of clarinet playing.
I learned on the Boehm system, but in my travels to Germany I have been told that the Deutsches System is superior in terms of intonation and options for fingerings.
Is it clearly "superior?" If it really that good, then why doesn't every clarinetist in the world just play the German System?
Ron Jr.
Post Edited (2006-03-06 16:34)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-10-13 16:08
I think both systems have different advantages and hearing a good player on either can show that the differnces are not as pronounced as in the bassoon french german systems.
For example. The boehm possesses a bigger and more projectile sound. The German system defintely has a smaller more focused sound.
The german system chief fault is in the fact the instrument does not have as many fingering choices. Added to this trouble is the adjustment screws in the upper joint are always a source of worry....Eb and the pad height pivot screws.
Right now Boehm is being used in German orchestras with great success. Players like Carbonare and Cuper are working regularly with the Berlin Phil...players like Pascal Moragues sound an awful lot like the german counterparts on the clarinet.
I think one sounds like oneself no matter the system of clarinet. Mind you, the price of the Wurlitizer's is a turn-off!
David Dow
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-13 17:38
Superiority of intonation need not have anything to do with the fingering system, and fingering options are expanded only with the more complex German system Clarinets. A 17/4 instrument has nowhere near the number of alternative fingerings of a Boehm instrument, but a 22/6 or an Oehler certainly does -- and more. However, Pino notes that many Clarinetists have played well even the most complex selections with an old Müller Clarinett. Anton Stadler played the Mozart Concerto on a Clarinet with few keys. Added facility of a more complex fingering system only makes things more convenient, not better.
Of course, the different sounds of the instruments are driven by acoustic design, primarily of the bore and mouthpiece, not the fingering system. Thus it is possible to produce a German system Clarinet that sounds like a Boehm, and vice-versa. Such instruments do exist.
Some people play German system Clarinets exclusively and swear by them; many play Boehm and wouldn't have it any other way. Others play both and can understand and appreciate the strong points offered by either system.
Jimmy Dorsey believed doubling on saxophone was easier for players of the Albert system (similar to today's 17/4 German instrument), yet a vast number who double saxophone and Boehm Clarinet wouldn't know the difference and don't care. Rendall, by the way, wrote that the best intonation ever in a Clarinet was provided by E. Albert's instruments made well before 1900.
Not a symphonic Clarinetist, I play mostly Boehm, but on occasion playing a German system instrument is a pleasant change. And my 22/6 Keilwerth definitely has a different sound from the usual Boehm.
Regards,
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-13 18:33
Very interesting thread, I'll continue to lurk and learn! As to differing fingering systems, I only play sax infrequently, but my fingers "fall into place" easily with few if any mistakes! Checking out a couple of oboes [one full plateau, the other part open hole] I was pleasantly surprised that, not fighting the ill wind for 20+ years, my fingers [but not my embouchure] still knew what to do !! It'll come back, no fear. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-10-13 20:31
I play both systems, Ron.
The German (or Albert or Oehler, depending on who you're talking to) system is my preference, but I think that's only because it's the one I learned first, therefore, the one I'm most 'comfortable' with. There are pros and cons to each system, of course, but I really and truly don't find a significant difference in tone quality. At least, I don't find anything in my experience that would qualify one system's tone production as Superior over another. A well made clarinet, in decent working order, will sound better than a beater. In my opinion, your mouthpiece/reed match and your embouchure/breath control will make way more difference than the horn's mechanism or bore size.
Of course, if you're living in Germany, I suppose you might wish to do as the Germans do. When I was there they were very nice to me. I know some Germans who perfer the Bohem and... we're still friends! 
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-10-13 21:19
Now I actively play the oboe, saxophone, Boehm clarinet, flute, and piccolo. There are absolutely no fingering conflicts between these instruments. Third space C fingers differently on all except that the flute and piccolo are the same. Much of the rest of these instruments is quite different, especially the third register and there are a lot of alternate fingerings for each instrument. The mind takes care of it all automatically.
The one thing one can't do is to think of the clarinet while playing the oboe or vice-versa as this can result in wrong fingerings. As an early player of the simple system clarinet, I would recommend the Boehm system based on it's universal acceptance, low cost, simplicity, and reliability. There is little penalty for changing one's mind later. Good luck!
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-10-14 14:45
I started on Albert and moved to Oehler, they are just about the same anyway, during my army days I was sort of coerced into playing Boehm for a while. I had little difficulty in learning Boehm fingering but never actually found the system comfortable, nor the airflow through the horn. Boehms seem to me to sit under the sound and you need to push up for brilliance. The comments by David about projection etc. Boehm v. Oehler are based on the German orchestral approach and specifically using German sized mouthpieces which are more subdued that the Boehm sound. Listen to some of the more folk/ popular oriented Oehler players from Austria, Carinthia, Slovenia etc. and you will find a rich syrupy sound. I have always used the French mouthpiece on the Oehler and actually tend to project more than Boehm players and have to be ultra conscious with blending when applicable. If you want to attempt a German sound with Boehm fingering then it is possible to use reform or German Boehm system horns with the German mouthpiece, Hammerschmidt makes a 50/50. As for fingering itself there are advantages with both systems. As an improvisor with leanings toward the musical rather than the technical I find the German fingering the most flexible and capable of the most inflexion. I feel more in control of the German horn and can make it work better for me. As for re-learning it takes as long as it takes. Just for the record the difference between French and German bassoons is no more drastic than the equivalent in clarinets I have played both. The French fingering is actually easier the main problem is the doubling, a la bagpipes, in other words closing holes from the bottom as you take them off the top. My first bassoon mentor was a French system player from Switzerland and he showed me around the horn and it made perfect sense.
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-10-14 15:58
I play both systems and like the flexibility of choosing which suits the repertoire I'm doing.
While your friends in Germany may extol the virtues of the German system, it's undeniable that the vast majority of players, worldwide, have opted for the Boehm.
The Oehler has tried to solve the integral intonation problems inevitable in clarinet design by increasingly complicated keywork, while designers of Boehm clarinets have tried to achieve this by altering the bore of the instrument itself. Both are perfectly valid approaches but in the end it's the player who gets the result when he's sufficiently accomplished on either.
jez
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-10-15 00:56
jez "opted for the Boehm" is, perhaps, bending the truth.
Did you actually get a choice when you learned the clarinet - I almost bet 99% that your answer is "no". You're teacher would have provided you with (however) a Boehm system clarinet, and would never have thought about suggesting you use the German Oehler/Albert (whatever).
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-15 01:30
When I first learned the Clarinet, I was told that the "Albert system" was an old, obsolete fingering system, inferior to the Boehm. Ha! E. Albert didn't build Clarinets until years after the Boehm Clarinet was invented.
Anyway, playing both Boehm and German Clarinets is not a bit more trouble than playing both Boehm Clarinet and Saxophone, and millions of players can do that. No big deal.
Regards,
John
Post Edited (2003-10-15 06:10)
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-10-15 14:46
Indeed I have many German clarinetist friends and I often feel as if their attitude is somewhat like the following: "Since you're so serious about classical music, why don't you stop playing that Yamaha piano and play a Bösendorfer." Or "Why don't you stop playing arrangements of the classics and start playing actual pieces?"
I used to spend extended yearly vacations in Germany playing chamber music. The other instrumentalists, Oboe, Horn or Bassoonists, didn't ever make this impassioned recommendation. It's only clarinetists and conductors who are certain to make this distinction.
Could there be a hint of national pride behind their insistence? While I could agree that the German cars manufactured by Mercedes, BMW and Audi are clearly "superior" to Renault or Citroen. Making a clarinet is certainly not as complicated as making a car.
I have noticed some of my German friends who are obsessed with water in the tone holes; perhaps because there are so many. But I could also say that about some of my Boehm playing cohorts.
Take care,
Ron Jr.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-10-15 18:44
Everyone has some degree of national pride, whether they readily admit it or not. I don't know how that relates to tone hole water - except, I guess we all tend to find things to obsess over. Maybe, if we successfully overcome the problem it helps bolster our sense of self worth. Personally, I like, immensely, the feeling of accomplishment when I don't gurgle. I find Germans to be no different than I, at least in this respect
- ron b -
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-10-15 22:51
Does anyone know if the Scandinavians use German system or French? Just curious.
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