 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-10-12 02:59
Hi all,
I have noticed that many students do not alternate between upper and lower pinky keys. It's either their upper or lower pinky that’s going crazy instead of "sharing the load".
To teach my daughter the value of this I have her play the "Imperial March" from Star Wars. There are a few quick passages in there that cannot (without extreme difficulty) be done any other way. Has anyone else noticed this?
Regards
Mark
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-12 03:14
Yes. And the same is true with other "alternative" fingerings that are equivalent. Students seem loath to take advantage of alternatives, rather sticking with the first fingering they learned under just about any circumstances. Eventually, when the Clarinet becomes more interesting, the tendency is to increase facility on the instrument as a matter of curiosity.
Asking the student on occasion to play using unorthodox (for that student) fingerings will help.
After all those years, I still rarely use the L4 F/C key. If R4/L4 back-and-forthing won't work without it, that's different. But otherwise, I just don't use it. We each have habits that become comfortable to us, even if they may be more difficult to perform.
Regards,
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-10-12 11:02
There are a whole host of reasons why the F/C and E/B pads may not close effectively or together. To correct this would be the most common adjustment work done on clarinets. It would be fair to assume that there is a significant proportion of players, especially beginners, who are playing on poorly adjusted instruments. Mal-adjustment here is particularly hazardous for beginners because young people have very weak 'pinky' fingers.
Almost always, when these two keys/pads are out of adjustment, the left hand fingering for centre staff B (B4) is less effective in closing the pads.
My guess is that students tend to stick to the fingering that works best. That means they will use the right hand B. Hence the left hand C.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-10-12 15:54
Looks like we're batting a thousand so far. Then there is the art of starting the note with the one fingering and then sliding to the other to facilitate the following note. Gordon's repetition of the adjustment problem is well taken and I totally agree with his conclusion. Poor adjustment of the left hand pinky key can also result in its hitting an adjacent key causing additional problems.....and further incentive for using the right pinky fingering.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-10-12 21:50
I understand the adjustment issues that would force the use of one fingering over another.
I have 2 questions:
1) Are there that many students forced to play misadjusted clarinets?
2) Are the students being taught to switch fingerings as it does make interpreting fast passages easier /possible?
Regards
Mark
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-12 21:51
Yes, well done JCMcA, Gordon, Bob D! When my music departs beyond a couple of #s or bs, I bring in "Plan Ahead" tactics, and on real baddies, note R and L on "workable" fingering patterns to minimize goofs! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-10-12 22:01
Mark P. Jasuta wrote:
> 1) Are there that many students forced to play misadjusted
> clarinets?
Clarinets are a compromise; a clarinet doesn't have to be "misadjusted" to have minor intonation vagaries.
>
> 2) Are the students being taught to switch fingerings as it
> does make interpreting fast passages easier /possible?
Yes, at least at the "high" end.
Then there are the fingerings that are on a "per clarinet" basis to bring things into good intonation and/or tone color. Good teachers will halp their students discover those, too.
However, at the middle school/beginning High School level, most students are still learning the rudiments of correct pitch, intonation, and rhythm. The alternate fingerings tend to be more used while learning the chromatic runs, and the teacher hopefully will be pointing out the "easier" fingerings depending on the piece.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-10-13 00:19
Mark P. Jasuta wrote:
> 1) Are there that many students forced to play misadjusted
> clarinets?
I don't know about "forced". It just happens!
Most new instruments straight from a shop would be in this category, and the few that are not, will probably develop the low key mal-adjustment as the new (not quite so poorly adjusted) pads bed in a little more with use. (The pads always bed in more on the side of the pad furthest from the hinge, and start leaking on this side.
Also, the most difficult adjustments in a clarinet are in this area, and there are 'technicians' simply incapable of it.
So in my experience, a resounding "yes". It is astonishing how many teachers never test the playability of their students' instruments until problems are serious.
Post Edited (2003-10-13 11:09)
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-10-13 02:22
I guess the reason that I asked seemingly dumb questions is that I go over my daughter’s horn at least once a week. Any adjustments it needs I do. Furthermore I told my daughter that if anything changes, or if she needs something changed /altered to make it easier for her to play, she is to tell me ASAP. Here is the best part, She does.
Regards
Mark
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-10-13 09:41
Maybe it's more than just leaking pads that causes us to develop a preference, though. For example, I almost never use LH E/B, and I realize it's a bad habit, but I don't. It doesn't leak, but it just feels awkward for me to reach that far, even though I have relatively large hands. However, I love using LH F/C, even though everyone thinks I'm crazy, and that key works perfectly well. Habits often play an equal role in determining preference along with pads.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-10-13 14:06
Ah, the beauty of the German system. Only one pinky alternate, cheat keys excluded, luxury.
There are two issues from what I have observed. The adjustment issues are very valid especially getting students to use the LH E/B which can be dodgy on many student horns. The other issue is making sure that students are taught the logical alternates via scale practice both straight up and down and thirds etc.. The alternates of course vary depending on the note order. I am appalled when I talk to teachers who use bad habits on Boehm instruments such as sliding between F/C and Eb/Ab. Even as an Oehler player who teaches Boehm students I make especially sure to take students through logical fingering patterns slowly and building up. When I was a student we were penalised in exams for not using correct alternates and chromatic fingerings. These days examiners don't seem to be as rigid. The patterns can be difficult to adjust to for example the use of RH low E as the starting fingering for an E major or minor scale but the LH low E is the starting point for the same scale in thirds or arpeggio. Another sticky one is the Eb dominant 7th and arriving at the correct LH middle Db to RH Eb. THose teaching should be thoroughly aware of the logical patterns through the alternates and how to teach them. The Jean Jean Vade Mecum is the most invaluable Boehm system alternate tutor.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-10-13 14:45
By now you are tired of hearing it, and it is a moot point for most who can't make the change, but I moved over to the Full Boehm about 2 years ago. It just adds in more alternates! If I had this set-up in high school I would have forced myself (as I do now) to use and become proficient with even more fingering combinations. I have always used all the keys, but gravitate to the right hand for most things except E/B. I never had a reason for that prefrence. Now I find I use both hands pretty equally except for that right hand E/B, I still dislike it, but now I have a reason. On a FB that key is tucked in between the C#/G# and the Bb/Eb right hand pinkie keys making it difficult to hit just that one key. I assume that alto and bass clarinets do not have this problem as the keys are larger and present a larger target!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-10-13 17:26
While the crow's foot and other adjustment matters, play a big role, there is also a problem in that the first E and the first F# learned in the lower register are often both LH. I see more students sliding left pinkies than right pinkies. Kids will develop their own half-baked solutions to things unless we get there first with something that really works.
Unforutnately, much early instrumental instruction is by band directors who don't necessarily have time to become intimate with the clarinet. We need to have a definite agenda of habits to form and maintain a rapid timetable to put our desired habits in place before the student finds other ways to fill the vacuum. A few preventative things:
1 - Foster good relations between the left index finger and the E-hole, A-key and G# key. I ask my kids early on to play E-A-E-A-E slurred as fast as they can. (opening motif to The Good, The Bad and The Ugly) I tell them that whatever makes it sound good will help them over the break. Given this task, most quickly figure out how to share the use of that finger.
2 - When dealing with early players, avoid incorporating fork fingerings into their diatonic scales. (with the possible exception of altissimo E-flat) Fork Eb/Bb, fork B/F# and side-key F#/C# serve only to gloss over problems that need to be practiced, and to rob the scale of any real utility. If you think I'm blowing smoke, try to play scales-in-thirds using these fingerings. A KISS approach to diatonic scales will bear tremendous fruit for a child's sight-reading. The above-described alternate fingerings can receive an adequate amount of practice in chromatic scales. Save more detailed integration for a private instructor.
3 - D scale is a great first opportunity to preach the gospel of alternating pinkies. I generally write the sequence D-C#-B-C#-D with the proper fingerings in my students' assignment books. I then ask them to play this sequence each time before they practice the D scale. A couple of learned the scale starting with that sequence and adding notes downward one-at-a-time.
4 - Keep in mind that students develop many technical problems because they are distracted by the mental process of figuring out pitches and rhythms in their music. Much of this can be relieved by teaching scales physically (1-2-1, 1-2-3-2-1, 1-2-3-4-3-2-1, etc.) rather than by memorizing note names and accidentals. It also solves a few other problems.
Allen Cole
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-13 18:47
Another thread for me to L&L [lurk and learn]. My first good sop. cl was a PM FB, so I learned the value of the alternates early. I'm sure that has felped my facility with bass [and alto] fingerings, if I could only reach [easily] the alt. Ab/Eb lever on my Sel bass!! Needs extension! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-10-13 18:54
Aha, found the guy who's putting those R and L markings on the scores!!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-13 19:47
Rite, Bob D, I'll bet I'm not the only one, some charts I've seen have markings on EVERY note, a bit much, kerrect?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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