 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben
Date: 2003-10-09 17:46
It seems that aside from some of the biggest and best finaced Orchestras (New York, Chicago, Boston, etc.), that it is getting harder and harder to make things work from a financial sence. Perhaps things are different outside the U.S., but because that is where I reside, the U.S. is where my comments primarily refer to.
Over the last couple years I have heard of numerous orchestras that have had to fold due to finacial difficulties (San Jose, Tulsa, etc.).
The recent difficulties for live music in Broadway shows.
It is getting harder and harder to find radio stational which play classical music.
Although it is not uncommon for many kids to play in school bands or orchestras, most don't have good instruments or good training to foster a genuine interest and apprieciation for classical music.
The % of sales of classical music is very small. Mabye 3 percent at best I have heard.
Although there are many colleges in the U.S. where one can pursue a music performance degree (usually at great financial cost/debt) there are very few jobs which become available each year in relation to the number of people in these schools. Wouldn't the public be outraged if only one in a thousand, or ten thousand, Doctors or Lawyers who completed their traning were able to make a living wage in their profession?
Is orchestral music in serious trouble? If so, what is being done today to corrrect this and is it enough? What could/shoud be done to solve some of the above problems and to make sure orchestras stay around for many years to come?
It seems to me that unless people understand and enjoy classical music at an early age, they will be less likely to continue this enjoyment and appreciation as adults, when they have the finacial means to support musicians and orchestras. Additionally, when they are adults and have their own children, their children will likely not be in as an ideal environment for fostering a love/appreciation for classical/orchestral music as children of parents who own classical recordings and/or go to live concerts. This is particulary the case when music is not adequately taught or appreiciated in schools (Kindergarten-college).
I find it hard to imagine that orchestral music will ever completely dissapear, yet unless as a society we are more carefull, it will continue to dwindle year by year, both in our schools, and make it harder and harder for professional musicians to make a living.
I hope things will improve.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-10-09 18:29
I've always wondered if the future of band and orchestral music may be somewhat dependent on volunteer musicians -- people (like me, but hopefully better players) who gladly donate a sizable portion of their leisure time to playing in whatever groups will accept them. If salary costs are the main limiting factor in allowing orchestras to survive, taking good quality volunteer musicians to keep the art alive would certainly be helpful.
I know in my city, for many years, the local municipal band was for pros only. Then in the late '80s they opened up membership to volunteers to keep costs down, and the group has been rolling along since. I'm sure there were some professionals who weren't happy with that move, but they're still out there on Sunday nights in the summer whereas they may not have been under the old structure. Certainly other cities have done this as well.
World-class musicians will always be able to make a living. But if we're talking the widespread survival of classical music and appealing to a wide audience who won't pay to hear it like they would to hear Limp Bizkit, then more organizations need to make room for people willing to play just for the love of it. And musicians who love classical music should be willing to step up and play.
Any thoughts? I'm just spitballin' here.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-10-09 18:32
The orchestra that I volunteer with is taking positive steps in its Education Program. The most current project has tied in one of our concerts with the required curriculum for grades 4-8. We've prepared suggested teaching materials for the teachers to use and adapt to their classrooms, with a CD included so the students can hear the music. The teaching materials include the curriculum for English, Geography, History, Music, Drama, and Visual Art, all of which we've tied in to the concert program. The students are scheduled for a student performance of this concert, and teachers are to bring in samples of the students' projects to display in the lobby of the music hall the evening of the scheduled performance. So far, teachers' responses have been most enthusiastic!
Further steps are coming along to make the orchestra relevant to the students, so they can experience live music. Since the curriculum requires a certain number of volunteer hours in order for the student to receive their high school diploma, we've sent out information to schools about volunteering with our orchestra. Instead of waiting for responses (which actually do come in) we're even calling specific teachers to ask for volunteers for specific tasks. This gives the students an opportunity to 1.)attend, 2.) bring a friend or parent, 3.) feel like they're participating, and 4.) rub shoulders with musicians, conductors, and composers.
It would be good to have some direct contact with kindergarten classes or parenting groups, but that has to be worked out yet.
What are other orchestras doing? There must be some great things happening in some locations.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-10-09 20:10
Ben, your mentionS of San Jose [have an operatic daughter-in-law there] and Tulsa [many playing friends there], sure got my attention! As best I know, and as reported in the Intl. Musician , both are striving to "keep music going" in these "dull days". Even our locals, BVL Symp and OK Mozart are feeling "drawback" in spite of a somewhat elderly base of support here. I hope this is only temporaryily due to "recession" and governemental priorities [hope my politics are not too evident, Mark]. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2003-10-10 04:18
We're talking about an art form that has endured some 500+ years. Surely its enjoyment and impact have greatly changed in that time and will continue to do so as our culture absorbs revolutionary changes in ecconomics, political structures, technology and so on. But... other than the arts, how much of 1500 or 1600 or 1700 or even 1800 is still valid in our lives? Damn little! It survives because there is a very timeless entity in the art form, and we are all the richer for it.
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Author: lycfmtkl
Date: 2003-10-10 04:28
I live in Hong Kong which is a special adminstative region of China. (previous it was a British colony)
We have a professional orchestra in Hong Kong subsidized by the local Government. It plays classical musical works in the largest concert halls in Hong Kong regularly. Many of the musicians came from the United States and Australia, etc. Without the subsidization of the Government, it probably cannot survive.
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Author: GilliganGirl
Date: 2003-10-10 05:05
I'm a high school student. Most of my friends and their parents are completely turned off by classical because...well, I'm not quite sure. So, if "America's future" doesn't listen to classical, then I'm thinking this style is going to completely loose all support in the future. Attendence is even low for my youth orchestra and band concerts, which used to be packed. Its rather depressing to think about the future of a type of music that has been so unbelievbly important to me.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-10 06:44
The warning signs of a decline in classical music are now undeniable:
Concert attendance down
Seasons being shortened or outright cancelled
Orchestras fighting for fiscal survival
Classical recording sales at an all time low
Recording labels cutting their output of new classical releases
Orchestral and band instrument sales are "soft"
Major instrument manufacturers cutting production
Radio stations changing format and cutting back or eliminating classical music
"Electronic orchestras" and "virtual orchestras" being implemented on an experimental basis
How does this affect clarinetists?
The sad truth is that for the many outstanding clarinet performers that will graduate from colleges, universities and conservatories world wide, very few will ever earn a dime from strictly just playing clarinet.
Now, more than ever, for students embarking on a performing career path, educators have a responsibility to make them aware of the reality of their dreams...GBK
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Author: ned
Date: 2003-10-10 06:46
" I find it hard to imagine that orchestral music will ever completely dissapear, yet unless as a society we are more carefull, it will continue to dwindle year by year, both in our schools, and make it harder and harder for professional musicians to make a living. "
I guess that classical music was the pop music of the day and it isn't today - it's sort of fringe music [if I may be so bold] - just the same way as jazz today, has also become.
I don't think it will ever become "popular" again, and neither will jazz [my particular music] - it is a matter of constantly changing tastes. Popular music today is ruled by teenage fads.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-10-10 08:53
Classical music (in the broad sense of the term) is also suffering because the repertoire is becoming fossilised.
If I go to a classical concert in London (hardly a musical backwater) then I can choose from three sorts of repertoire:
(1) Popular classics of the TV theme tune variety. No thank you.
(2) Beethoven Brahms Tschaikovsky. Fine. Great music. Heard it before.
(3) World premieres (and probably world dernieres too) of modernistic works. Doesn't appeal much either.
Is it any wonder that I don't go to many concerts? And if I, a music lover with plenty of disposable income, don't go to concerts, then who will go?
What the serious music lover needs to tempt him back is composers writing new music that we want to listen to. And no, I don't accept the argument that Berg, Stravinsky, Messiaen, Britten also seemed hopelessly modernistic when first played.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: CJB
Date: 2003-10-10 12:57
I agree to a certain extent with David's sentiment - I find there are few concerts in London that have exciting enough programmes to make the effort to attend (I live 65 miles outside London).
However, just to play devil's advocate for a while, is this because there are too many concerts competing for the audience? Therefore forcing the programmers into putting on either safe repertoire or experimental music in the smaller venues for the squeaky gate clique who will turn up to hear anything! (Don’t jump on me for that comment, I’m often in the audience but can recognise it isn’t everyone’s cup of tea). I was really disappointed when I moved from Birmingham to the South East that the variety of music being performed by the major orchestras didn’t seem as exciting.
I think that there are probably a number of composers around who are capable of writing modern, yet lyrical melodic music – I come across many writing good new music for wind band. Is the problem that commissioning a work for orchestra is expensive therefore not undertaken with a new composer who would be a ‘risk’ leaving younger composers finding the only way they can get their music heard is to write it as smaller scale works aimed at either the modern music groups or to write ‘TV theme tunes’ and get their music heard by millions as background music?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-10-10 15:43
CJB, when I lamented the lack of accessible modern music, I wasn't limiting my remarks to orchestral music.
The problem is not just that the big orchestras aren't playing modern repertoire that people want to hear. The problem also is that the famous pianists and violin soloists and singers aren't performing such repertoire.
I would also disagree with you that young(ish) composers don't get big commissions. What was the last really big musical event in London - one that really hit the headlines? I'd say it was Turnage's opera The Silver Tassie. Premiered in 2000 and revived in 2002. Critics talked of it being as important as Peter Grimes. I don't think so. I'll be proved wrong if Turnage is mainstream repertoire in fifty years' time.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-10-10 16:22
While reading your informative comments a couple of things came to mind. First, orchestras need to understand that it's vital to reach young people, the younger the better, and I mean pre-schoolers. If new parents could be encouraged to use some of these classical recordings that are specially made for babies (can these be included into Mom's post-natal package at the hospital?) then babies will have this beautiful music included in their "comfort zone" in their developing brains. There's quite a variety of such specially compiled CDs out there. It's a matter of educating new parents of the usefulness of such products. When Moms and Dads realize that music can be used to comfort babies who cry endlessly, then it becomes a priority in their lives, just because they have something to ease the panic of a crying baby!
Another point about orchestral music is this: audiences are becoming more visual. Our audiences were very happy the times we've used visual aspects to compliment the music. Obviously you won't use this all the time, but it's very nice. Once when the "Pictures at an Exhibition" was on the program, we brought into the lobby the series of 10 paintings on which this work was based. (For those who know that the paintings don't exist, these were painted by a Toronto artist in the 70's based on research he had done in Russian literature.) The artist introduced the work and explained the story - the audience was very receptive!
Another time, on a screen behind the orchestra, we displayed slides of photography a local artist had taken especially for the piece being played. These were choreographed to coordinate with the music. And I agree, modern compositions don't need to be as difficult to understand as they often are. A recent winner of our young composer's competition won the hearts of the audience with his amazing work, and he was 19 at the time! He did another piece for us this year.
So, if an orchestra is imaginative, they could come up with many solutions. The first project is getting the audience in the door, then being sure they leave satisfied and they will tell their friends. Word of mouth is a big deal. What worked years ago doesn't necessarily work anymore. Once an orchestra acknowledges that, they've come a long way.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-10-10 18:07
I think there is alot of fine music, but when you have a handful of record companies controlling everything, no wonder classical music is dying on its feet!!!
David Dow
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2003-10-10 22:04
To begin with and to comment on Ben's question; "Wouldn't the public be outraged if only one in a thousand, or ten thousand, Doctors or Lawyers who completed their training were able to make a living wage in their profession?" I believe the simple answer would be no. In fact I for one would be happy if fewer lawyers made a living and if fewer doctors were needed, but that aside.
Most free markets will end up supporting the right number of any commodity, including musicians. We may not like that fact, but it is true. I'm sure the wagon wheel makers had similar sentiments which in the end had no bearing on the eventual outcome.
My gut feeling, and it is no more than that, is that one of two problems associated with live music is the lack of live music at the community level. At the turn of the century I read somewhere that there were something like 13,000 community bands in the US. I also read that their demise in part began when the musician unions demanded that union members be paid when participating in community bands. I don't know if that is true or not, but the drop in bands was dramatic and quick by all appearances. In either event, many live musical groups went away.
But because of that local opportunity to hear live music isn't there, then many people cannot appreciate the difference between live and recorded and the interaction between musician and audience. Rock concerts are hardly a help since they are largely amplified beyond safe hearing limits and many are as much about fireworks and orchestrated stage acts as the music.
The second is the lack of exposure that children have to classical music or really any music other than what is on TV and the radio. It is hard to appreciate anything you do not know about or understand and I firmly believe that every musical group should make an outreach to grade school children.
Some months ago I posted a message about an occurrence while my wife was in the hospital. We were playing Mozart’s Gran Partita I believe it was the Adagio when a young CNA's came in. After a bit she just stood and listened to the music and when it was over she said it was one of the most beautiful things she had ever heard and wanted to know what it was. I told her and then she asked, "That’s classical music?"
Although I know it is against the rules of logic to argue the specific to the general, but if that is the level of musical education many people have, then the hand writing for classical music in on the wall! Further I would ask who in part is to blame.
You can argue play lists and any number of issues for orchestras, but by all accounts audiences are getting older and younger patrons are not coming in. Simple math will show that if that trend continues, any orchestra so effected is doomed unless they can survive without a live audience or concert ticket buyers.
Again just my gut instincts but they might be good places to begin work on reversing the current trends.
Best
RW
Best
Rick
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Author: Allie
Date: 2003-10-10 22:49
I hate to think how stupid we could all become without classical music! :-)
http://www.lauralee.com/news/classicalbrains.htm
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Author: lyn
Date: 2003-10-11 02:53
>>Further I would ask who in part is to blame. <<
I would start with Ronald Reagan and his Proposition 13...... which ended up with cutbacks in music in the school systems. What happens in CA steamrolls over the rest of the country.... POOF! Music is now not core-curricular. When general music is cut, the bottom is cut from the programs. Then the rest falls into the hole....
Kids see that general music gets maybe 30-45 minutes once a week. So they see that it's not important to school as a whole. Or life. It's a "fun" thing, entertainment, no more than that. Programs with 20 teachers now barely exist with 7-8.....
All you see in the high schools any more is marching band marching band marching band. Musicians blame it on drum corps, LOL. Nah. Drum corps has been around forever. Blame it on the money-hungry PR departments of the school districts. Who gives a rat's behind if there are quality musicians making all-state groups? It's what the general public sees that counts, right? Entertainment again.
I go to district band competitions and listen to the kids. When I was in there many moons ago, it was a real beech to even get in, let alone get into the first clarinets. The clarinets were always excellent; for example, Bill Hudgins was in our district. If I recall correctly, he wasn't even first chair our senior year, I think he was second........ But now, it's a real joke. Maybe 4-5 kids can play REALLY well, out of 100...... I'll get kids coming in who play the Fantasia (of Fantasia & Rondo) in a fast 2/4 instead of slooow 4/8........... Imagine the beginning of Concertino at about 132......
The teachers don't know any better, they never get that far. My husband taught clarinet in a large university School of Music for 40 years, and for the last 20 got many many clarinet majors who were just into/barely out of the Rubank Advanced 1 book. Colleges don't even treat applied music with respect. They give a half credit for lessons - so again, the quality of performance isn't important. So why should anyone respect performing? Why should anyone respect the profession???
Not only that, these mediocre musicians go on to teach our kids.....and our kids get only what the teacher can give (if that)....and people think that the mediocrity is the norm......and it goes downhill from there. The nurse who didn't know Mozart is just indicative of the way she was taught...and the way our system is run by what makes money, not by quality.
Quality means something. It's ok to be run of the mill - if you're not purporting to be a professional. But it's not ok for professionals to be mediocre. Would you want your brain surgeon to operate on you when they really didn't practice their craft???
Outside of all that - Very rarely do I encourage my students to go on to music in college. It's been hard for me to make a living. Not that I don't enjoy it - but why should I push them into a life when it's a real toss of the coin whether they'll ever get a teaching job or not? Kids these days need to be able to do more than one thing when they go out into the world. There is no job security any more. We all need to be able to roll with the punches - something that music teachers are limited in being able to do. All I can do with my music degree is teach clarinet........
~L
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-10-11 02:55
lyn wrote:
> >>Further I would ask who in part is to blame. <<
>
> I would start with Ronald Reagan and his Proposition 13......
> which ended up with cutbacks in music in the school systems.
> What happens in CA steamrolls over the rest of the country....
> POOF! Music is now not core-curricular.
I would start significantly before then ... music wasn't "core curricular" in NY State in the 60s.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-10-11 04:16
Insofar as classical music in the US is concerned, I would offer that it's near demise is a result of cultural, technological, and market influences.
The European culture in this country, upon which most of our orthodox classical music is based, has become a minority culture. Those of Latin, Asian, African, and Middle Eastern cultures, taken together, I would guess (I haven't done the math) outnumber those of European decent in this country. This spills over into music: its groups, performances, compositions, recordings, tickets, all of it.
The "great melting pot" has diluted the "classical" style of music into oblivion. The purist version represents a tiny minority of sales, performances, market demand, and profit. The genre has been in the process of morphing into other stuff: remember "Classical Gas?" The popularity of the guitar replacing "big bands" since the 50's. Synthetic and digital performances replacing live instrumentalists at increasing numbers of gigs.
I believe that over the next 100+ years, our instruments, the music they perform, and the groups they are performed in, will go the way of many primitive Appalachian instruments, e.g. the dobro, jews harp, and others...they will be performed by eclectic musical preservationists at cultural fairs around the country - and not much else. Taking their place will be computer managed electronica tied to human sensors emitting combinations of timbres, cords, melody lines, and rhythems generated by individual or mass human emotions: the ultimate in interactive rave music.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: lyn
Date: 2003-10-11 14:38
>>music wasn't "core curricular" in NY State in the 60s.<<
It was in PA. Not by any legislation, necessarily, but because it was valued. I think culture itself was more Valued - sports and money didn't rule the roost, the players weren't making millions of $ in salaries and advertising deals. The 50s, 60s and 70s were Huge years in good bands here in PA. Huge.
Our little podunk school district, affectionately called the "little red brick schoolhouse in the middle of a cornfield" that graduated way less than 200 people per class, had one of the biggest & musically advanced bands in the county. We had lots of kids taking private lessons outside school. They offered a couple levels of theory, aurals (when's the last time you saw that in high school?), band, jazz band, wind ensemble, summer pops band (for fairs). And a lot of kids in the district type festivals.
We don't do football, so we don't have field marching (lol - yay!). The kids got private lessons from grades 5-8 for a half hour a week. We had no string program, still don't - but the numbers aren't there for it, really. Other, larger schools in the area, had way more than we did. Then hit Proposition 13.
Now, all our district offers is band. No theory or anything else. Chorus takes the kids out of band 2-3 classes a week, depending on what grade the kids are in. Kids still get lessons, but they are only 15 minute private lessons in grades 6-8, and group lessons in 5th grade.
And the parents, who are in their 30s usually, growing up uneducated in music because they didn't have classes the last 25 years, don't bother to take the kids out for lessons outside of school. Why should they when they get "free" ones in school? They are clueless!!! Spoiled, too. But they don't know any better.
I have a lot of students whose parents remember the way it "used to be." They get very upset when the school district suggests football and field marching. They get upset when the band is put second to sports. And they are angry that they put Chorus and Band during the same period, because their children are being short-changed. I don't blame them. So I try and get or give their children better experiences so that they can at least "spread the love" on to their own children someday.
I had several students of mine make the Lancaster Youth Symphony last month. They had their first rehearsal last weekend. Most of them had never played with an orchestra before, let alone one with an excellent string section And they came home with BIG stars in their eyes, like WOW....... and I said to them, "now you GET IT." I know it changed one girl's life entirely. That's what it's about....
The question is, how do you get through to the general public?
~L
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Author: lyn
Date: 2003-10-11 15:09
BTW someone mentioned getting orchestras to go to the schools.....
I have been trying to get one of the orchestras I play in to do this for years. There is TONS of grant money available for this sort of thing. But they refuse. The director refuses, actually. Yet he always wants to conduct the district and other youth orchestras. Not sure if he thinks it's beneath him or what, he has a tendency to be stuffy....
I think regular folk think there is an "elitist" attitude about classical music. That is something that is really necessary to get rid of before we can make any forward movement insofar as changing attitudes toward classical music is concerned....
~L
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