 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-11-05 12:41
I just had my Thibouville freres clarinet repadded and corked. It looks and sounds very good. I had decided not to call to check on it, I just wanted to see how long it would take them; they kept it for 4 weeks but they did a beautiful job--they even added color back to the embossed name on all the sections. While I was at the music store, i picked up the Music Minus One, Mozart's Clarinet concerto in A Major (K.622) I'm not ready to tackle it yet, but I enjoy listening and following along with the score--it is helping me get my sense of timing back after all these years.
One thing that surprised me is the A clarinet part is in the key of C, and the Bb is in the key of B, which means I have to play 5 sharps! I guess it is just a matter of practice and learning to play these sequences of notes with all these sharps. It is going to take me a while. Just a question for all you proficient clarinetists on the board. Do you ever get to the point where seeing 5 sharps in the key signature doesn't bother you? Michael
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Author: Mario
Date: 1999-11-05 13:18
The Mozart Concerto was written for A clarinet. There are many transcriptions out there for Bb and piano, but no recording of same for Bb and orchestra.
While playing in B might be a good technical learning exercize, it will destroy the fluid musicality of this piece. My suggestion to you are: Buy an "A" (a few hundred dollars will open up 40% of classic clarinet repertoire), or find a pianist who can play it with in in Bb.
By the way, the MMO recording is not the best interpretation of the piece. Find yourself a good recording from a Master and learn the music from them.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-11-05 14:06
michael wrote:
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I just had my Thibouville freres clarinet repadded and corked. It looks and sounds very good. I had decided not to call to check on it, I just wanted to see how long it would take them; they kept it for 4 weeks but they did a beautiful job--they even added color back to the embossed name on all the sections. While I was at the music store, i picked up the Music Minus One, Mozart's Clarinet concerto in A Major (K.622) I'm not ready to tackle it yet, but I enjoy listening and following along with the score--it is helping me get my sense of timing back after all these years.
One thing that surprised me is the A clarinet part is in the key of C, and the Bb is in the key of B, which means I have to play 5 sharps! I guess it is just a matter of practice and learning to play these sequences of notes with all these sharps. It is going to take me a while. Just a question for all you proficient clarinetists on the board. Do you ever get to the point where seeing 5 sharps in the key signature doesn't bother you? Michael
Michael -
The Mozart concerto is in the key of A and was written for A clarinet, which therefore plays in it's key of C. If you want to play it on Bb with the MMO disk, you will need to transpose it down a half step, thus playing in the key of B. (You will also need an instrument with a low Eb to be able to play the A clarinet's low E.)
If you have a vinyl disk player that can vary the speed, you can probably find the LP version of the Mozart concerto in used record sites and can speed up the rotation enough to bring the pitch up to Bb. It won't sound quite as nice, and the tempo will be quicker, but at least you won't have to transpose.
Another possibility is to get the Dave Blumberg accompaniment (he's a sponsor on Sneezy), which I'm sure he can supply in Bb.
There are also several printed editions of the concerto with piano accompaniment, with the piano part transposed into Bb. Luyben will certainly have them.
As to being comfortable in the key of B, this is absolutely possible, though it will never be quite as smooth or easy as playing in C. Although there are few pieces written in B (most of them will instead call for the A clarinet), you will quite often play passages that modulate through the extreme keys, and you must have the scales and chords "in your fingers." To do this, get Part 3 of the Baermann method and work your way through it. Every professional player has done this and is expected to be able to play in any key without hesitation.
The Francaix concerto is in the key of B all the way through, and the big-technique players make it sound, if not easy, at least smooth and idiomatic.
Good luck. Practice, practice, practice.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Graham Elliott
Date: 1999-11-05 14:31
Of all the woodwind instruments the clarinet is one of the least capable of playing in difficult key signatures. This is not only because it presents a technical challenge but because the instrument is incapable of sounding as smooth and effortless in demanding keys.
Any composer deliberately choosing such a key has got to have good reasons for doing so. In the case of modern music this might be because a sense of starin or abruptness is actually wanted, or because the music is so heavily modulated that the written key signature is not particularly relevant to the keys being used in the piece.
It could also be that a composer who has done his homework will know the tricky note relationships to avoid despite the difficult key.
If you are using a transposed part of a piece like the Mozart, none of this applies. It is not a good idea to play the Mozart in this way. It is often said of Mozart that it is the most unforgiving music in regard to slight inaccuracies or imperfections, whereas much modern music does not share this trait.
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Author: Kevin Bowman
Date: 1999-11-05 15:00
Ditto all the suggestions re: Mozart.
As for getting used to various keys, especially those with lots of sharps, I can tell you that I've gotten very used to playing in 6 and 7 sharps on saxophone. On clarinet, it is not such an issue, as stated by others. When you play sax in a band with guitars (who _love_ sharps) then you end up in some really bad keys, especially if playing alto or bari sax (concert A = F#, ouch)! Anyway, Klose and Stark have some good workouts in all keys. Play a little bit each day in the difficult keys and they will soon become a strength.
Kevin Bowman
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Author: michael
Date: 1999-11-05 19:41
Thanks to all of you for the comments and suggestions. Whew! I feel much less inadequate knowing that Mozart meant this to be fluid and smooth with the A clarinet. Oh well, I guess I wasted some money. Live and learn. Michael
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Author: HIROSHI
Date: 1999-11-06 01:33
There are scores for B flat clarinet transpose as the clarinet part is just the same with that in A like "Recital Literature for the Clarinet" by William H.Stubbins(late professor of clarinet,the University of Michigan).
Even MMO's Laureate series have!
It seems useless to parctice in totally different key from that for original key instrument.
But another example exists. When you play Schuman's Fantasie Stucke second or third part with A-clarinet instead of B flat one makes the key very easier! And as A clarinet sounds better, this is very good!
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Author: Barry
Date: 1999-11-06 17:22
Jack Brymer did an excellent transcription of the Mozart concert tor Bflat clarinet, and my partner says the piano part is excellent.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-06 18:01
Check the ICA Research section in <A HREF=http://www.clarinet.org>The ICA Site</A> for an excellent article by Keith Koons on the relative merits of all the available piano reductions of K. 622
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Author: MeredithH
Date: 1999-11-07 21:50
There first time I picked up my clarinet after an 8 year break was to play in local theatre production of the 'The Sound of Music' and for some reason a lot of the pieces were in 4 to 6 sharps. Luckily most of it wasn't terribly fast or I would have struggled. I really don't like playing with more than 4 sharps or flats but it isn't as hard as I thought it was when I was younger.
I dabble in playing brass as well and I must say I don't really care how many sharps or flats the music has as the fingering can never get too complex when you only have 3 or 4 vlaves. Clarinet is another story, keys with multiple sharps or flats definitely require more thought and practice to play as there are a lot more keys on a clarinet.
I must agree with the other responses to this question. Find an arrangement of Mozart's concerto transposed for a Bb clarinet there is no point making things too hard for yourself.
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Author: Ray Swing
Date: 1999-11-08 00:35
I have the Mozart (K622) with the Piano Part in B flat. It was arranged by Simeon Bellison (Carl Fischer Co.). It is almost identical to the pro recordings I have. Basic difference I found was in the slurring of some runs which the pros tongue and some embellishments by the pros and a different cadenza.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-08 00:39
Ray,
<br>you might want to check <A HREF=http://www.clarinet.org/Research/Presentations/Koons98.html>Keith Koon's K.622 Comparison</A> and make corrections on the score. Keith indicated where the score has unexpected notes or trills.
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Author: Ray Swing
Date: 1999-11-08 16:13
Mark,
Thanks for the informantion. I never realized there could be so many variations in K622. Mr. Stoltzman did tell us about the early history of the Concerto and in following along his rendition, I did note a number of differences from mine. However, except for the long and beautiful Cadenza he played, the version was very close to the Fischer version I have. Of course, being only a run of the mill amateur musician, I probably missed many nunances in the performance which was as far as I was concerned was perfect.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-08 16:28
Ray,
<br>Are you sure it was a cadenza and not an eingang? There's a dramatic difference between the two; the Mozart does not call for a cadenza. Check Dan Leeson's set of articles in <A HREF=http://www.sneezy.org/OCR>The Online Clarinet Resource</A>.
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Author: Ray Swing
Date: 1999-11-09 02:06
Mark,
In my Simeon Bellison version of K622, he references the "Eingang"in the second movement as the Carl Baermann "Cadenza". Also, your previous reference of Keith Koons references the area in the middle of the second movement in the same manner under the SOUTHERN MUSIC (TOURNERIE)," For the Eingang in the second movement, Tournerie provides no less than six suggested cadenzas. They include Mozart's passage from the Quintet, Carl Baermann's cadenza and variants on both of these."
Based on these references, I believe my use of the term "Cadenza"is correct.
Ray
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-09 02:41
Ray,
Many people did perform and write cadenzas for K.622, but it is not proper to play one. An eingang is called for, at least that's what the Mozart scholars would tell us. That's why I asked if Stoltzman played an eingang or cadenza. They're different animals.
Here's a long section from Dan Leeson, a Mozart scholar, from the Klarinet Archives (search for eingang in the archives for more):
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The same problem occurs in the Mozart concerto and Mozart clarinet quintet. Everybody talks about "the cadenza in the Mozart concerto" despite the fact that there is none, there never has been, and it is damn unlikely that there is ever going to be one.
So what is it that Neidich is doing at that spot?
Another signal that all classical composers put out was to place a fermata over a dominant 7th chord at very dramatic places in a composition, usally where there was a change of key or a change of tempo, which is exactly what is happening in the Beethoven sextet at the very point you mentioned. Look at the music. That is a dominant 7th chord. And to any working musician of the 18th century that meant only one thing: EINGANG!!! which in English means "lead in."
The player was expected to do Eingang things and whatever they were, they were miles away from cadenza things. The only similarities are that both are introduced by fermatas and both cause the soloist to play alone.
There were three rules to an Eingang and Neidich follows every one:
1) the instrument which is to play the melody AFTER the dominant seventh chord is the person who plays the Eingang. That's the clarinet and that's why it was Neidich who did it.
In the Gran Partitta at m. 14, it is also the clarinet. In the Mozart piano/wind quintet, it is the piano. Take a look!
2) the Eingang generally ends a semi tone before the first note of the new section; i.e., the 7th of the scale, though the second of the scale was often used. In this way, the lead into the new melody was made very cleaning and directly and most comfortably for the audience. The alternative is to have the melody played with no basis of a beginning; i.e., there is no lead into it.
3) keep the Eingang to about 15 seconds tops (although there are a few cases in Mozart concerti in which the Eingang that was put in by Mozart for a student who did not know how to do one was given a big hint). Some may be a little bigger, but never as long or as involved as a cadenza because the two things are not the same, serve different purposes, and have different rhetorical functions. Oh yes. The Eingang was invaraibly improvised on the spot.
So to call an Eingang a cadenza is like calling a baseball a football. They are both balls, to be sure, but calling one the other will get you killed in some areas of the country. And calling an Eingang a cadenza would have gotten you killed in 1790.
So Neidich, on seeing the signal given to him personally by Beethoven at that point in the composition made the right decision, did exactly the right thing, and is criticized by you for doing it.
It's simply a case of the preponderance of clarinet players (and musicians in general) having no knowledge of what it is they are supposed to do when playing music of this period other than playing the written notes (and they should not even be doing that all the time).
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Author: Ray Swing
Date: 1999-11-12 00:15
Mark,
I am assimilating all the information you have laid on me on this subject including all your references. I will get back to you on this in about a week.
Ray
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