 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: tim smith
Date: 2003-10-02 17:54
Has anyone heard of a Simba Clarinet? What are your thoughts? Is it a good clarinet for an 8 year to learn on? Any information would be great. Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-10-02 18:05
tim smith wrote:
> Has anyone heard of a Simba Clarinet?
I ahven't heard of it yet, but a few questions:
Where is it being sold at? If not a reputable music store, then chances are it isn't repairable.
Where is it made? Currently, France, Germany, Japan, and the USA produce pretty good student clarinets (I'm sure some of the parts are made in other places, but the base of operations is in one of those countries). There may be a very good manufacturer in another country that's trying to break into the market, but it's going to be hard for them and there's going to be some time before it's accepted.
How much is it? New student clarinets are generally over $300 US; if something is significantly less than that figure there's probably a reason - again, it might be that a very good manufacturer is trying to break into the market, but I think we'd hear of it very soon after introduction.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-10-02 18:21
I'll bet the price is alluring, isn't it?
In my opinion, an inexpensive instrument will never have the playing characteristics of the traditional Big 4 plastic student models (Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer, and Yamaha).
IMO, the bottom line here is that a beginning student needs a responsive instrument that has reasonable intonation, tone, and...will be "kid proof".
Also, be aware, that many, many repairpeople simply will not touch inexpensive clarinets made in China, Taiwan, etc. Replacement parts may be impossible to get and the quality of worksmanship at the manufacturing end may simply not be there.
Also keep in mind that if a beginner can't initially produce reasonably good sounds at the start, he or she may become discouraged very quickly and walk away with a "I guess I can't do this" feeling where the problem was not with the student but with the instrument. That, IMO, would be a tragic loss because the clarinet is a wonderful instrument.
Most likely, the Simba does not have undercut tone holes. IMO, that makes a BIG difference in the tonal quality and playing characteristics.
My opinion? Don't give in to the temptation. It simply isn't worth it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-02 18:56
Simba clarinets are sold at Sam's Club and (possibly) Costco stores.
There are two models, which list for $119 and $199.
Enough said...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2003-10-02 19:12
I saw some Simba instruments (cl., flt., trmpt.) at Sam's about a month ago, GBK. The open display allowed them to be handled and examined. Had Sam offered to pay ME to take one home I'd have declined.
Of course, Sam made no such offer and, no, I didn't take one home.
Later that day, out of curiosity, I looked up Simba on the Web and found a few dealers and other info. To be truthful, I don't now remember what the info was - other than they're "high quality" and "inexpensive".
More than enough said....
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2003-10-02 19:53
The testimonial page on their web site has glowing customer recommendations from Clyde, Danny, Tabitha and Tina.
Hey...I'm sold.... GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-10-02 20:24
Hey, at least there's a menu item for the Parts List.
Of course, there's no parts listed there ...
mark C. (who really can't talk much about missing pages himself ...)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-10-02 21:29
It's like this: If you want something cheap and disposable, and don't really care how WELL it works, only that it sort of works, then buy some low-priced Chinese-made item at Wal-Mart/Sam's Club/Costco, etc. I'm not talking just about clarinets here, this philosophy applies to clothing, hand tools, toys, whatever. I'll admit I frequently buy this sort of junk at these types of stores because often all I need is the 'minimum usable item' for the job, and I don't intend to keep the item for long. If your plans for the Simba clarinet (or Xsinghai, or Monique, or Parrot, or Wexler, or any of the other three thousand brand names they slap on these atrocities) are for Kid to play it for two months and then chuck in the garbage, then by all means, save your sheckles and buy the Simba. But if you think Kid is ready for something of quality, which he/she will take pride in and (hopefully) take care of for a long time, then probably you should look elsewhere for your clarinet. My oldest daughter is age 7, and if/when she decides to take up clarinet, there ain't no way I'm putting one of these Chinese-made disposable things in her hands!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-10-02 22:18
David: ANYthing is disposable. We usually hope it isn't. Frequently we lose. Buying a CSO would likely precipitate one of those times, eh?
GBK: I was in Costco recently and did not see Simba instruments. However, I did see the other-named ones for sale there. They are offered with a five-year warranty. Wonder what it includes.
tim smith: Many youngsters bang about their Clarinents before they learn the fine points of how to assemble, handle, and care for them. Sturdier instruments can take some mishandling without damage, and minor damage can be repaired. Some super-cheap Clarinets are not sturdy enough to withstand much mishandling; and if they become damaged, most reputable repair technicians will not touch them. This is not a "scare" comment, it is just plain true. And if the thing suffers handling damage, there went the warranty. All in all, not an attractive situation.
Meri's link to the MENC music teacher's posting is good. A comment was made: "The metal is thin and poorly cast." This describes a horrible example of just one of many difficulties with cheap stuff. Reputable Clarinets do not have cast metal parts, they are forged. Cast metal parts are really cheap to make and intrinsically inferior. If broken, they can not be repaired; they must be replaced. And spare parts are almost always unavailable.
So why do reputable stores sell this junk? Why, to make money, of course.
Regards,
John
Post Edited (2003-10-02 22:29)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-10-02 22:34
John said: "David: ANYthing is disposable" - in musical instrument terms I think some old Italian string makers have broken that rule so far ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-10-03 01:30
No good words for Simba but it will not be long before certain areas of the world with less expensive labor will be able to produce quality instruments at a cheaper price. I know of several respected and knowledgable clarinet designers, custom mouthpiece makers, metallurgy experts, etc. that have been hired as consultants by Asian Rim companies to produce better instruments and accessories. It will take a lot of "damage control" to change the image of the current crop of horns in people's minds but many American consumers (almost unique in the world) have a trilogy of buying habits starting with price, name, and last quality. It will take much longer to change the buying habits of "experienced" players from the "Big 4" but 85% of the new clarinets sold or rented are used by students who have played less than 3 years which equals volume!
The Doctor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-10-03 10:56
"Unique in the World.."
Funny, I taught kids in Mainland China, Taiwan and Thailand...
they were all pretty much the same. If advertised, kids know the skinny.
When was the last time you saw an advert for band gear on TV?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2003-10-03 11:15
We have a new Sam Ash store in town, and a friend of mine manages Band & Orch. He told me that there are almost no rentals--just outright purchases of Chinese instruments.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-08-24 05:51
I've played a few Chinese made clarinets that actually are not bad. I have a CSO around here somewhere, absolutely NO markings whatsoever, that plays very well. First time I blew it I was startled by its response and intonation... could'a knocked me over.... I'd planned to give it to my son to make a lamp... now I'm having second thoughts. (...well, no, that's okay, go ahead with the lamp  )
The closest I've come to the Simba was two years ago listening to a tech friend describe his experience. The horn played okay for what it is, an inexpensive not-too-sturdy 'beginner' instrument. The keywork is not very stable, meaning the keys can be bent rather easily. You need to be careful not to bump or grip too hard or it will easily go out of adjustment. Intonation is not the best but probably okay enough to get someone getting started playing. He refused to work on it after he'd 'test-played' it.
Will I work on 'em? Sure. I just won't guarantee that the regulation will last. Big four instrument repairs are guaranteed for a year.
When you get to the point of wanting to be in an ensemble, community band or some kind of group playing, Ah Clem, you'll probably want to upgrade to something a little more stable. For now your Simba is probably fine for what you're doing -- learning at your own pace at home and becoming familiar with the feel of making music on a clarinet.
I've seen far worse examples, most often very poorly made saxophones (and trumpets). Chea...(oops).. *inexpensive* clarinets seem to get away with things other comparably priced instruments couldn't. I'm not sure why -- maybe it's the overblown twelfth rather than an octave that allows them to get by... I don't know....
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-24 11:30
Hello,
I saw the Simba on my trip to China, so it must be made in that region of the world.
"When was the last time you saw an advert for band gear on TV?"--from Synonymous Botch
It's kind of interesting that we bought a new car recently and free for the first three months is XM radio (living near Washington, D.C., there are 5 or 6 classical stations, 3 jazz stations, so this is unnecessary, but if I lived in the sticks, it would be a necessity). I listen to the comedy channel frequently and Musician's Friend advertises there. I'm sure they've done a market study and determined that people that listen to the comedy channel have their own rock bands, or whatever, but it is the first music store advertisement I've ever seen (heard) in popular media.
I'm waiting for the first $100 pro quality instrument from Asia. I'll be the first in line to purchase. Actually, everything I read about that region of the world reminds me of America a couple hundred years ago, economically speaking, that is. If you think back even 100 years, labor was inexpensive in the US. That's why there are so many cool buildings in large cities with excellent architectural features. Today, it would cost a fortune to have these included on a building, which is why most buildings today look very "cookie cutter" and dull.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinets1
Date: 2005-08-24 16:11
i fully agree with the comment that brand names are built to take some abuse. as a music store salesperson in the midst of rental season, i have seen my fair share of Instrument Shaped Objects. beginner instruments need to be built like tanks. 90% of children don't realize right away how to properly care for their instruments, therefore a well-made instrument is in order.
service people refuse to work on these instruments because the repair oftentimes falls out of repair. the instrument is returned again, and of course, parents feel that if it wasn't fixed properly the first time they shouldn't be charged the next time. this spirals out of control and the little music store on the corner can't make enough to survive.
perhaps that was a little too "doomsday"-ish, but ya'll get the idea.
on the other hand, perhaps we shouldn't be too overly concerned about this. Wal-Mart does not sell reeds, nor is its staff knowledgeable about any of the instruments they sell. customers will have to visit a music store eventually.
unfortunately, these ISO's also drive the value down of real instruments, losing profit margins for the dedicated businesses. Ebay does the same thing.
in today's world, you get what you pay for.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-24 16:31
Are these 'Simba' branded ones exactly the same as the Selmer Preludes?
I had the misfortune to work on a new Chinese clarinet, but can't remember which name it had as there are too many different names for essentially the same instrument, Stagg, J. Michael and Oddyssey ('Use It Up, Wear It Out' being an apt description for the latter) being some of them.
It didn't come apart that easily (especially the side keys on the top joint), and didn't want to go back together without putting up a fight as the spring slots were poorly machined so the flat springs (that wouldn't tighten up) would catch in the roughly milled out slots, not to mention the side F# pad was leaking (among many others).
Not to mention the quality of the key parts - thin gauge metal was used throughout, the F/C and Ab/Eb touches being made from sheet metal of some sort that stuck out at a strange angle as there wasn't enough metal in them to bring to the right shape, therefore the distance these were from the F#/C# and E/B touches was huge enough to drive a bus through. And the F#/C# key touch broke off as there was only tacked on with the minimum amount of silver solder, the gap being filled with soft solder after it was plated, just to add to the spiralling repair cost.
The middle tenon joint was loose, and replacing the tenon cork was the only option, but due to bad design the slot in the tenon was as deep as the Grand Canyon, so a lining of thin cork was glued in before I could glue the standard thickness of tenon cork I normally use.
The barrel was so short it would only be in tune with itself when pulled out by 5mm. I didn't even look at the mouthpiece.
Uneconomical to work on by all accounts, I suggested the unfortunate owner he'd be better off with a Buffet B12 or Yamaha 250 - at least they should last him loads longer and he'd have the chance to part exchange it later on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-25 10:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
