 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinet87
Date: 2003-09-26 03:46
Ever since I started playing clarinet I've had trouble counting rhythms. In 9th grade I got first chair, then second chair. I'm in 10th grade now, and today I saw the results for the chair seating and found out I got 3rd chair. Every year I seem to get worse at counting rhythms. My problem is that I can't read notes and count rhythms in my head at the same time. This is a problem when it comes to chair seating tests in band. I try really hard to subdivide in my head, but I just can't seem to do it. My clarinet teacher helps me with this but is beginning to see that it's just a lost cause.
Is there anyone on the BBoard who has the same problem, or who could make some suggestion to help me count rhythms.
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Author: Woodwinder
Date: 2003-09-26 04:08
Go very slowly and use your foot. Ignore tempo at first, just make sure you hit the number beats on the downbeat and the "and"'s on the upbeat. Go note by note. (For sixteenths, make the first one on the downbeat, and the third one on the upbeat--or two on a downbeat, and two on the upbeat.) Stop your foot if you need to. Like, say you have an eighth-quarter-eighth pattern, and the notes are Db, F, Eb. Think of what you're going to do first, then do it. For the first note, go downbeat on Db. Hold your foot down. Second note, get the fingering, then go up-down. Make sure to start the note when the foot is at the top. Then on the third note, get the Eb, and make it on the upbeat. The trick is to go slow, pull it apart, put everything where it belongs in terms of downbeats and upbeats. If it's a downbeat note, start it right when the foot hits the floor. An upbeat note starts at the top.
That's the organizational phase of learning it. Then when you understand it, put it to a slow tempo, where you're keeping up with the beat.
Also, look for the Ed Sueta Rhythm Vocabulary books.
I wish I could sit down and show you what I'm telling you. I've taught hundreds of people to count using this method. Sometimes we just go note by note, with me pointing out a note, and the student tapping it out. You have to stop your foot at the end of each note, look at the next note, take in all the information, then do it. It takes a lot of patience though. You have to go back and get it exactly right, by going as slow as you need to to accomplish that. Think of it as building a good foundation. You probably already sound pretty good most of the time except for this pesky counting issue, right? You have to be willing to go backwards.
Now if this works for you, you might become a perpetual foot-tapper, which I admit I am. But there are situations where it's not appropriate to tap, say for example, it the conductor thinks it looks tacky. Sorry to say, it's hard not to tap once you've learned to do it this way. But not impossible. Let me know if this helps. Signe
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Author: clarinetgiggirl
Date: 2003-09-26 08:26
I am desparately bad counting and will be taking woodwinders advice. I have no problem going back to basics, I've recently had to correct a problem when I found I wasn't tonging correctly - I thought it would take forever to do it right and was quite disheartened, but in the event, it only took a few weeks and was worth it.
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-09-26 09:13
If the conductor doesn't let you tap or if you're playing a concert or something where it might not be appropriate, then you can always conduct with your big toe! Just wave it around in your shoe to the beat, and it's almost as good as tapping. Then, get really into the beat and move your head and body around until the conductor gets really annoyed and just lets you go back to tapping.
But for this rhythm problem. I would also suggest using a metronome, because if you're not counting rhythms right, it could very well throw you off the beat. Don't know if that's a problem for you. But what woodwinder said is very good. Break everything down and slowly think about the notes and analyze it to see where beats are. I'm assuming that you can do really basic, even rhythms like 8th notes and 16th notes steadily. Most rhythms I believe are just built onto these rhythms through a combination of slurs and tongued notes. Often, if you're tying together many different rhythms, it gets confusing. Just slow it down, and take out the slurs, or even make everything into sixteenth notes. Then, try to slowly work your way back to the original rhythm. Basically subdividing I suppose, although a bit different.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2003-09-26 14:55
As one who has lots of problems with timing, let me add to the suggestions above that you mark the down beats in the music that is causing you grief. It often is difficult to get the correct note and the correct rhythm at the same time and pencil marks help. Perhaps mark both downbeats and upbeats with long and short marks or arrowheads.
My teacher urges me to first get the timing right, and then worry about the notes. It's pretty easy to tell when you've played the wrong note; much more difficult, when playing alone, to detect the wrong timing. (Actually, he ranks timing first, articulation second, and then the notes third - again for the same reason - it's generally easy to tell when the note is wrong.)
You can also try clapping the rhythm before you start to play it. Only clap when a note sounds initially; when notes are tied, only clap when the note sounds initially. Tap your foot while this is going on and say one-ee--and-- uh-- two--ee or the like when appropriate.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-09-26 15:21
Just don't become discouraged--keep practicing, you'll eventually "get it".
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-09-26 15:38
The number one, absolute key to being in time, having proper energy, and so forth is knowing where the downbeat is. This sounds obvious, but it's trickier than it seems. Each time you hit a beat of a measure, don't dwell on that beat, rather immediately switch your thoughts to the next beat and how you are going to get there. If you know where the beat is, you can start working on everything else, but if you never properly reach the beat, nothing else will ever be quite right.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2003-09-27 03:27
1. Make sure you know what the time signature means, i.e., which note gets how many beats.
2. If the time sig is a "cut" time. e.g., 2/2 or 3/2, it may help to think of it temporarily as "full", giving half notes two beats instead of one, etc, and just count twice as fast, until you get the rhythm.
2a. Count exactly what you are reading; don't worry about what it
"feels" like until you are sure of what you are reading. Focus on the
rhythm exclusively until you get it. Don't worry about anything else
except the rhythm, until you get it. Become so strong at rhythm that
the conductor notices you are even stronger at rhythm than the first
chair.
3. Tap your foot. Tap vigorously. But if the conductor doesn't like it, do the toe in the shoe thing - and do it to the conductor's beat. That's what conductors are for. It wasn't in your question, but a related issue is speeding up / slowing down. Don't do that (other than when directed by the conductor).
Hope this helps.
Steve Epstein
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Author: denner22
Date: 2003-09-27 11:28
Buy and use a metronome for your daily practice. Essential equipment for any young player.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-09-27 15:44
One important issue here is that of distraction. Many young players have counting problems because they are too focused on manipulating the instrument. Here are some things that I've found successful with students:
1 - Study rhythm on its own, away from the distraction of manipulatingn your instrument. There are a number of good books out there, some of which now have demo CDs.
2 - When you are playing, concentrate primarily on rhythm. Your scales, arpeggios, etc. have trained your fingers to operate from subconscious input. I think that your fingers will do a more automatic job of hitting the right pitches if you concentrate your conscious though on hitting them AT THE RIGHT TIME. (you will also find your fingers significantly more coordinated)
3 - Keep time physically. Tapping the toe inside the shoe--as stated above--should keep you out of trouble with your director. But HOW you do it is important. So many players simply read the rhythms and try to tap along--ending up only with yet another burden. You have to set a steady tempo that you can use as a rhythmic yardstick. As Steve said, tap VIGOROUSLY and FOLLOW IT.
i.e. Don't tap along to your playing. PLAY along to your TAPPING.
4 - Don't hesitate to pencil in your beats on complicated rhythms. Your pencil is not a crutch. It is a standard professional tool.
5 - Spend lots of time with your metronome--it's your best friend. It'll tell when you're looking good and it'll warn you when you're looking bad.
6 - Get a duet book and play along with yourself via a tape recorder. Learning to cope with yourself as a playing partner will do much to tighten up your counting. The metronome can also be very helpful in this activity.
Allen Cole
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