 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-09-22 22:34
Hi - not being an owner of a bass clarinet (yet) I've been working on a composition for a clarinet ensemble in Ontario. In the process of working things out - it struck me never to assume that bass clarinets have the extension down to low C. If one cannot guarantee this, then why write at that range when it might be shoved up the octave?
I'm interested to know if you bass clarinet players DO have this extension to low C, and if it was a deciding factor on your purchase of a particular brand of clarinet?
thanks
diz, Sydney
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-09-23 00:12
Diz,
I think if you're writing for people who normally play wind band music, it would be safer to stick to low Eb, but if you know they regularly play in orchestras you could assume they'll have the low C.
The question is whether to tailor the piece for the first performance or for future publishing/purchasing market.
jez
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2003-09-23 00:17
I play a low C bass, and I love when people write for low Ds and Cs. *drool* What I have seen some pieces do is write the music with the lower notes in parentheses, which works out fine.
I would say most professional grade musicians aim to buy low C basses. I use my school's bass right now, but I know a few people that own their low C Basses. When I get myself some money, that is what I'm going for!
--Contragirl
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-09-23 02:07
jez 'n' contragirl ... thanks
I'll stick to low E flats for the moment ... no, it's not wind band music, actually very "clarinetistic" and written for an emsemble of clarinets ranging from Eb Sop down to Contras (alto and bass).
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Author: CJB
Date: 2003-09-23 12:23
The desire to have a low C prevented me from buying a bass until I'd got more cash!
The extended range is becoming more popular in wind band writing as well, at least at the more advanced end of the repertoire. Both of the pieces I was playing bass in at our last rehearsal (the Ellerby Clarinet Concerto, and Sparke's Dance Movements) required it.
Go on diz - put in some of those lovely low notes and help owners of low C instruments justify the extra expense.
As a side line though if sticking with Eb - remember many low Eb instruments don't have a 2nd Ab key.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-23 15:48
diz,
I've been playing bass clarinet for nearly thirty years in just about every kind of ensemble with only a low-Eb bass, but that point is not central to the discussion --- however, here's a suggestion to avoid the problem altogether --- if you're writing for a clarinet choir, why not include an EEb contra-alto clarinet (range to written low-Eb) to cover the notes you'd otherwise have to write into an extended-range bass clarinet part? The EEb contra is a nice-sounding instrument that can add a lot of weight to the bottom of a clarinet ensemble, irrespective of the presence or absence of Bb bass clarinets.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-09-23 16:26
I'm an amateur with a low-C instrument. It was a factor in my purchasing decision although I had never encountered any note prior to a low D before that. Since then, I've become a part of wind ensemble with high performance standards that regularly plays more difficult pieces. My observation has been that newer and higher-level wind ensemble pieces are taking more advantage of the low-C instrument.
My suggestion would be to consider the type of group that you would expect to play your piece. If it is aimed at high school bands and community bands, consider that a low-C instrument may not be available. If it is aimed at university groups and higher-level wind ensembles, take advantage of the lower notes if they are critical to the piece.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-23 17:52
Diz - As I read your problem-question, if you are composing for cl choir [or similar group] or symphony orch, can't you give those notes below the BC's Eb to the contra cls, bassoon [s, for volume], to the low brass in comm band etc? In our C B and church music I have seen only a few low D's, which a low A bari sax, or cello/ string bass et al, could easily handle. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-09-23 22:50
David Spiegelthal said
"why not include an EEb contra-alto clarinet (range to written low-Eb)"
actually if you read the fourth comment made on this thread closely ...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-23 23:10
DOH!
Rule 1: "Read before writing".
However.......since apparently you've planned all along to include the two flavors of contra, then there's really no issue at all --- no need to write below written low-Eb for the basses. Eh?
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-09-24 08:18
If I were in the market now I would buy the low C version. But I like my E flat instrument, and I had an extension put on with holes drilled for down to C, but the keying just for D (it was cheaper). I have found that I encounter roughly one piece per year out of an extensive repertoire, that uses bottom D, and in one case this was shown in brackets with the middle D as the prime note. In no case outside chamber music have I yet encountered it when it was exposed. I have never encountered C sharp, and the only time I have played C (up the octave) was in Rach's Isle of the Dead where it was such a tutti passage no-one could have noticed. But I realise that I will be well and truly caught out if I have to do the Leningrad, which requires C sharp in several very exposed locations. Then I would have to consider the expense of having the keys put on.
What I am trying to say is that the C extension instrument is a pain. Almost no parts use it properly, but professionals need it for the very few that do. If you compose below the E flat you will be exacerbating the problem, so I would suggest you avoid that.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-24 14:19
In my many months of playing bass clarinet the only time I've REALLY needed the notes below low Eb was playing Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet" ballet, and having to jump up the octave during a few of the (exposed) passages was musically ugly and quite embarrassing ---- if I were a full-time professional player there's no question I'd need a low-C instrument, but as a part-timer I've managed pretty well without and will probably continue to do so (at least until I have some spare time in which to complete my homemade low-C extension, which is about half-done-----works well acoustically, now comes the hard part: placing the extra keys/levers and running all those linkages down to the new toneholes!). I'm still waiting for the major instrument manufacturers to do two things that they should have done years ago: (1) start producing inexpensive "A" soprano clarinets for orchestral players on a budget; and (b) start producing inexpensive low-C bass clarinets. Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer, and Yamaha: are you listening?
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Author: William
Date: 2003-09-24 14:37
Most of my bass clarinetting is in wind ensembles but I am glad that I have a low C instrument even though the "low notes" are seldom specifically written. However, I seem to encounter lots of music where the low D, Db or C should have been written and I "edit" those segments. One example that comes to mind is the opening of the Holst Suite in Eb. Instead of jumping the octave, I follow the tuba right down to low C and it sounds more logical. I am certain that Holst would have written the lower notes had the low C bass been the "norm" instead of the Eb bass. Newer wind ensemble music is being written "down there" and it is good to have an instrument with that extended range.
So, to address this posting, write the low notes by all means if that is what your arrangement/composition needs. And for the record, I bought my low C bass because I wanted to be able to play the new wind ensemble music as well as the extablished orchestral work. Also, I was impressed by the quality and quantity of sound that my low C bass clarinet produces as opposed to other Eb models that I also auditioned (one, a "Brannenized" Eb bass).
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2003-09-24 17:34
Dave, have you ever seen the prices for German Bass clarinets? Can you compare a Buffet 1193, or a Selmer 25/II, for 7 or 8K with a Wurlitzer Boehm Bass (low C) for 14k?
I agree that current boehm bass are expensive, but german ones are definetly out of reach.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-24 19:39
javier,
The fact that German clarinets are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive does not in any way solve my problem that current French and American clarinets are merely TOO expensive for me! But your point is well taken.
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-09-25 08:22
William
How audible was your low C sounding at the same pitch as the tuba? My guess is that it does not really matter which octave you were in (apart from your own personal enjoyment of the line). Indeed, I recall one piece for military band in which I played bass, where my part sounded exactly an octave above the tubas. They were playing piano, and I was playing mezzo forte. This meant that their sound was smooth and mine reedy. The blend of these two created a sound of pleasing complexity, which would have been lost either if the tubas had played alone, or if I had played the phrase down the octave.
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2003-09-25 15:46
Dave, I agree with you, 7 or 8k is a lot of money. In fact, my bass is the Buffet student model (1180) range to low Eb, and it was less than half the price of the 1193 when I bought it. I'm very happy with it, and I've never needed to play lower than Eb (I don't play a lot of bass, indeed). For what I play now, I don't need more anyway.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-25 17:32
javier, it sounds like you made a good purchase with the Buffet 1180. About 5 years ago I stopped by a local music store on a whim and play-tested three bass clarinets: Buffet 1193 (low-C), Buffet 1180 (low-Eb), and Yamaha whatever model# (low-C). Of the three I liked the 1180 the best by far --- the 1193 was pretty good, and the Yammie I didn't care for at all.
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2003-09-25 17:42
Dave, Sure I did, it's a very nice horn. The only thing about it is that clarion F# is stuffy, and clarion G# hard to attack without squeaking but a good reed solves this problem. All the rest is wonderful. Sound, intonation, dynamics control, etc.
I bought it in France, so I profited the tax's reduction for no european buyers. final price was a little more than 2K, at this time.
Maybe some day I will add a key for play low D (the low Eb is in the body and the bell has the hole).
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