 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Renato
Date: 2003-09-20 17:21
Hello. I'm new here, this is in fact my very first question.
I'm a self-taught (for now) amateur clarinettist with a persistent source of frustration: even though the sound of my Buffet R13 (mpc B45 and Vandoren V12 #3.5) is quite satisfactory for most of its range, with the expected exception of the throat notes, I can't come to terms with the perky vibration that comes on when I play the E on the first line (E3, is it?) and some other notes around it. It sounds as if a ring was loose or something like that. It's annoying me.
Before I seek the help of a technician, do you people have any insights to contribute? Thank you.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-20 17:47
Welcome, Renato, I believe we'd call it E4 per MarkC's posting, upper right on the BB logo. I'd guess its a "metallic [or paper]" vibration, a noise , not thru the mouthpiece? We have a number of skilled repairers on our BB, so I and others bow to their analysis, interpretation and judgement. Could it be coming from the pad just below your left hand 1st finger, try the 1 and 1 Eb to see, or if metallic it might be from some keywork where the "silencing" cork has been lost? I suggest checking it over carefully, we'll try to help, but need more info. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-09-20 19:22
I also wish to extend a Welcome to you, Renato. You've come to a very friendly place.
I'm assuming you're at least an intermediate player since you can play the full range. I'm also assuming you've already checked to make sure everything is tight, ligature screws, bell ring, key screws working loose, obvious things like that. If it is that a silencer or broken pad skin is the culpret, as Don suggests, a tech could find it right away and fix it in short order. If you're determined to find the problem yourself, check everything you can see or feel for anything that may seem a little 'unusual'. Then, as Don recommends, check back here with your findings and folks will try to be helpful.
_ r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-20 21:57
This is more common with flutes.
First ensure that the pivots tight and are lubricated. The 'point screws' should really have a higher viscosity oil than the rods to reduce noise and possible vibration.
Check for any other slight metal-to metal contact that is not firm.
A spring slightly touching something, perhaps part of a key, that it should not touch.
Check that all needle springs are completely free between their mounting posts and their 'cradles'.
Check that flat springs do not slightly touch the pivot tube.
On some clarinets the threaded end of the Throat A pivot rod could slightly touch the G# pivot tube.
Ensure that there are 'silencer skins' between the left hand low 'levers' and their respective skins (that is if there is a pin-in-a-hole linkage system.)
Make sure those low keys and levers do not touch eachother.
Make sure all linkage 'corks' are present.
Make sure the body rings are not loose, especially the one at the bottom of the bell.
While playing the offending note, get another person to handle all parts in the vicinity of where the sound comes from. When the buzz stops, you are getting close.
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Author: Renato
Date: 2003-09-21 01:19
Thanks to all. I'll go about checking everything as suggested here and come back soon with the outcome... And thanks for the welcome.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-09-21 12:39
Welcome Renato! Listen to Gordon, he's always on the money when it comes to tech stuff it seems!
Actually, I am having the same problem with my new Concerto Bb... I've been in to the repair tech (Gordon: Do you know Ian Gordon in Melbourne?), it's been taken apart, put back together, we've checked everything, can't seem to find it.
But something is buzzing a LOT on B above middle C, and then a slight 'ring' throughout the rest of the instrument. It's annoying me a lot!
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Author: Renato
Date: 2003-09-21 13:06
LeWhite,
It seems we're having pretty much the same kind of problem! The buzzing notes for me are middle ("long") B, C#4 and E4. It's really a sort of buzz-ring sound that nearly takes the joy out of playing, especially because most of the other notes are coming out nicely now (up to high E, that is). Then the music goes down to those buzzing notes and... flop.
I've been trying to find out where the problem is, but haven't found the culprit so far. Apparently there's nothing wrong with the pivots, rods, keys and rings, and the clarinet's been to the shop just a few months ago (to have the G# fishskin pad replaced with cork).
The suspects now (after reading about the characteristics of pads in Jack Brymer's book "The Clarinet") are the fishskin pads on the upper joint, since they may lose their original shape and start buzzing.
One thing I haven't tried is oiling the pivots and all. By the way, what's the best way to do so? I already have the specific oil -- how should I apply it?
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Author: Rene
Date: 2003-09-21 16:33
For the long B:
Did you try a fresh reed? Did you try long tone holdout to improve that tone, relaxing the lips? You can also try to clean the register hole for that note. It might simply be a reedy sound, which is not present, when you play lower. That sometimes is like a metallic ringing.
For the E4:
Is it air blowing on the pad below the E key? This sssssss can get disturbing. Solution is to seek a technician.
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Author: Renato
Date: 2003-09-21 22:18
Rene, thanks for your input.
The long B is often "heavy" and hissing or buzzing, it's a critical note for me. The tone does improve after I have warmed up properly and removed any excess water from the clarinet. Even the exact position of the upper-lower joint connection matters, at least with my clarinet.
The E4, maybe it's air blowing on the pad. I'm gonna have to take it to a technician anyway, because I want to have my clarient in the best possible shape so I can take the most out of practice.
Despite all this, the fact is that my clarinet played very nicely today. A warm day around here, the reed -- quite fresh -- adequately moist, and maybe the tightening of screws and slight pressing of the suspect pads (with my finger tip) had something to do with the reduction in that odd vibration today. It was there but not half as annoying as it usually is.
Of course, the throat Bb is still the main enemy...
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-21 22:23
We all have great and not-so-great days ! Just got thru discussing register key/tube questions. Read our earlier threads [search] maybe there is help out there. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: William
Date: 2003-09-21 23:48
Just a couple other possiblities. I've experianced those same buzzing probems on both my Buffets and Leblancs usually a good oiling of the keys eliminates it (them).
However, on a few occassions, the ringing/buzzing sounds--expecially when on B5 and B4, it has been caused by either loose set screws on the lower joint or a loose bell rim.
Those sounds can be irritating to the player, but I doubt that they carry to the audience. Good luck.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-22 13:38
My name is Gordon Palmer, in Auckland, which is a long way, in a different country, and "across the ditch" from Melbourne. The only Ian Gordon I know is an expert on local macadamia nut and cherimoya breeding/growing.
E4 buzz, in my experience has always been caused by the inadequate venting, the condition of the pad, A/D key pad, or use of a reed that is too hard for the embouchure/air pressure of the player.
B4 buzz is sometimes caused by an inappropriate register pad or inadequate venting here. I have often promoted an inverted "frustum" (decapitated inverted cone) here, made from cork.
Post Edited (2003-09-22 13:39)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-09-24 05:13
Gordon - I suspect the A/D pad, to be honest.
Mark - Yup! He's great, always does a great job on my clarinets, but he can't find this buzzing either!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-24 06:17
If you suspect the A/D pad, then try playing E4 with the A/D key removed....
Or the lower joint removed or rotated such that the A/D key can open further.
Post Edited (2003-09-24 06:18)
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