 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Meri
Date: 1999-11-05 16:30
Has anyone ever noticed how weaker players tend to be put on the second and third clarinet parts by band conductors in high school and non-music faculty bands? And then they are always telling the second and third clarinets to play out, or that those parts are weak. What compounds the problem is when a conductor tries to put a strong player on the second or third clarinet part, some strong players will refuse to play. In addition, often those playing second or third clarinet tend to be quite silly: how many times do you hear them talking as opposed to the firsts? Of course, in small bands, this may be unavoidable, and in large bands, you must distribute good players.
Here is a context to consider: in my college band, there are 8 clarinetists, including 4 (maybe 5) good players. Two of them refuse to play any part other than first, and the conductor allows us to choose what part we want to play. I mostly play second clarinet parts, by choice. Our conductor last year would have split the five good players in a 1-2-2 dvision.
Why do band conductors do this?
Meri
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 1999-11-05 17:45
I can't answer your question as to why, but in our community band, I believe we try to distribute the best players among the different parts. In fact, the clarinet section leader plays second clarinet.
I realize the source of the problem is people wanting to play the first part, which more frequently carries the melody. Last year, when my daughter was in junior high, her orchestra teacher made her first chair second violin. Even though I explained that orchestras usually place one of their better players as first chair second, she felt slighted and eventually talked the teacher into letting her play the first part.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-11-05 19:18
I've almost always been relegated to second or third parts, even though I practiced like crazy on the first part. Disgusting, isn't it? But if I step back and see it at a distance, there is usually a good reason.
If the conductor of the amateur band knows how to manage his or her resources, putting better players on first and less skilled players on second or third parts to create a well rounded and balanced sound is a good strategy. I still remember a playing in a holiday concert where there were three parts for Bb clarinet. All three of us had very good pro-grade Buffet clarinets that we took the time to warm up and tune in. We also practiced the music to get a sense of timing and tuning all the way through. I played third as an adult novice. A high school All-Region musician played second and an All-State first row musician played first. I couldn't tell how good the results were as I was playing, but I heard a reasonable quality recording of the entire orchestra later. The resulting sound and musical power from the three piece clarinet section was outstanding. I have to admit, the conductor got it right with his selection of who sat where and why.
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Author: Chloe
Date: 1999-11-05 19:44
The who plays what part is always a problem in our school band. There are four of us and three parts. The conductor likes me to play first (because I'm the only one who can hit the high notes) and one girl chooses to play the third part, leaving two players , one to double me on first and one to play second. One girl is two years older and incredibly nervous but a good player, she doesn't care what part she plays but is too nervous to play anything on her own, the other is a year younger, a good player but if she doesn't play first won't come. But if she plays first, the second part doesn't come through, so normallay they take it in turns (ie neither of them knows either part) because the conductor doesn't want the hassle of sorting them out but it's not my place to organise them because I'm only one grade higher and the same age so they'd just hate me. I think the only way to achieve a good balance in the clarinet section without offending anyone is for the conductor to tell people what to play.
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Author: Fred
Date: 1999-11-05 20:16
In part, I'm afraid, this is a matter of maturity vs. ego. All parts must be heard if the music is to be perceived correctly by the audience. In my college days, we had the best two players on 1st stand 1st part; the next two best on 1st stand 2nd part; etc. When it came to solo or soli parts, those players were the ones who carried the music, often leaving others on higher parts sitting idly by. In life, we would generally be a lot better off if we didn't care who got the credit. But then, if we were all like that, perhaps no one would have the drive to be the very best and the world would go lacking for geniuses. I guess the saying is true: "It takes all kinds . . . "
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Author: Mario
Date: 1999-11-05 20:34
If you really want to have fun with the mind of the players, try the following:
In order to create real good dynamics from the band, play the soft part with one player per section (this applies to all instruments). Used properly, this can give a small wind ensemble feel to even the largest band (when it is appropriate). The skillful conductor will elaborate on this idea and will sometimes restrict o 1, or 2, or 3 etc. the number of players active at a given time. He might even balance the sections to compensate for weaker players in the low end (the top end always comes through - out-of-tune, screetchy, but heard!). This conducted will plan it well and progressively add/remove players at the right moment for the best musical effect.
If you think you have issues with who is in first, second, third section, etc., wait until you have to choose who drops out and who stays.
Beautiful, but tough on the ego if not managed properly. Competitive conductors will always give the semi solo parts to their best players. Participative ones will give equal "air time". Choose your objectives.
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Author: ted
Date: 1999-11-05 20:54
In my high school days, I always played first parts. I've played mainly second in various communmity bands, and actually find the second part much more difficult because many notes are in the throat tone region, and there seems to be a lot more crossing of the break.
I can think of two reasons band directors would put the best players on first parts, however.
1) It promotes competition. I remember myself and two others really striving for first chair. We all got better because of the competitiveness.
2) The first part tend to carry the melody more often. So naturally you'd want your better players playing the primary part.
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Author: Kylene
Date: 1999-11-05 21:03
I went through a High School program where the best player sat first chair first, and then second chair first, and so on. I spent four years sitting in the first clarinets - something which I got used to, and expected. My junior year in high school at all county, our conductor (Dr. Russel Mikkelsson, director of bands at Ohio State) decided that we should have "vertical seating" so the best player was first chair first, but the second best was first chair second. The band ended up sounding much more balanced - although I did have a slightly bruised ego from having to sit second chair second. Once I got to college, we were seated in the traditional way for my freshman year, and had problems with balance once again. This semester when we had our auditions they ranked us, and then spread us out so that we were "evenly" distributed. There is also 16 clarinets, so we have 3 firsts, 5 seconds, and 8 thirds. The balance is excellent, and we sound much better having strong players on each part, and we have eliminated the competition and jealousy, because we dont know how we are "ranked" - officially. All we know is that the top player is 1st chair 1st, as usuall - We have ideas, but we know that first chair second and first chair third are not the 2nd and 3rd best players - and neither is second chair first. It is random, and it has worked out very well! Everyone is having fun, and we are making more music, and having less competitions!
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Author: Tobin Coleman
Date: 1999-11-05 23:06
Chloe wrote:
-------------------------------
The who plays what part is always a problem in our school band. There are four of us and three parts. The conductor likes me to play first (because I'm the only one who can hit the high notes) and one girl chooses to play the third part, leaving two players , one to double me on first and one to play second. . . . .
I dunno, Third Bass?
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Author: bigcage
Date: 1999-11-06 11:31
This is always a sticky wicket. Especially for school band directors who must passify parents who "know" the talent level of their child for they heard Henry Cuesa(sp) on the L. Welk Band. A community band I play on has seating by years in the band. Try balancing triads when the 3rds outplay the 2nds. During a rehearsal for a Casals Cello Concert, everyone stood around discussing who would be principal chair. Egoes were running rampant, then in stalked Piatagorsky. He took third chair, and said, "Shall we begin? We are here to honor Pablo aren't we?"
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Author: Sir Green Knight
Date: 1999-11-06 15:27
Last summer, at SYMS (Summer Youth Music School) I was placed in 1st chair 3rd clarinet, but i also was 5 points away from getting all state... so i think some people try to distrubute the.. goodness in playing, also, i don't think people should really care if they play 1st all the time, because obviously the 2nd and 3rd parts are more challenging in some pieces.
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Author: MeredithH
Date: 1999-11-07 21:36
It all seems to be about ego who gets to play the first or solo parts and as it has already been pointed out if all of the good players are playing the first part things do tend to get unbalanced. In my community band, which is composed mainly of teenagers, they get mortified if they get asked to play a lower part so it ends up being the adults that shift around to strengthen the lower parts. In my section I am the strongest player but not the best but our best player is so nervous about doing solo parts that I have been doubling her on the first part for nearly a year. I would be far more comfortable playing the second part. As it is the lower parts hardly ever come through but my conductor is reluctant to move me back down to second and have the third part doubled.
I can understand the attraction with playing the upper parts, they are often more interesting and there is usually a bit more glory involved. Why don't conductors rotate their top players around from competition to competition so they all get a go on all of the parts (except the 1st chair)? That may take some of the sting about playing the lower parts away and may help keep relationshps among the players more harmonious so to speak.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 1999-11-08 00:41
My most recent playing experience was with a small band, really an orchestra (it had fiddles and other strings), that played for contradancing. We had one other clarinettist, a semi-pro with some conservatory training. Then there was me, the ex high school player. You can bet that the "principal" :-) clarinettist played the "second" parts, not the first. Especially since he had to make them up himself. We were all using concert key music, and I was playing my C-clarinet so I could manage it. He was playing on a B-flat clarinet, not only sight transposing, but making up harmonies as well. And since we were often in the concert keys of D and A major...
Of course, he got to play a couple of pure solo parts, in addition to the section solos we played together. In a formal concert band, I can't see how you could not put strong players on harmony parts. The first chair second should be the second best player, the first chair third, the third best. The weaker players can play anywhere. You reward the strong harmony players with solo parts, as mentioned by someone else above.
Really, what does it matter what part you play? A lower part might actually stand out more. Often times, in our gig and rehearsals, harmony was dictated by the fact that I could not stay well enough in tune with him, so he jumped down an octave or up a third.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 1999-11-08 15:25
In my first response, I mentioned that in our community band, the director tries to distribute the players to get a good balance. After writing it, I thought of a good example to illustrate my point.
At a recent rehearsal, the director apparently felt that the trumpet/cornet section was out of balance on a particular piece. In the middle of rehearsal, he had each section member play the same phrase, in effect auditioning them. He then rearranged their seating to get a better balance. In the whole process, he made no comments on how any player did. He just rearranged them. Afterwards, the balance improved.
In the past, I have also heard him tell the section leaders that they could rearrange the sections to allow different players the chance to play different parts.
However, since I play bass clarinet, which rarely has divided parts, I don't run into these problems.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-11-08 17:11
I was second seat in a two person group of bass clarinet players in high school, many years ago. They picked me for this crucial back-up part because I always played the third parts of soprano, and I was a quick study. I could copy anyone else better than me given a few tries at it. My job was to add totally in-tune, on-time volume to the first bass clarinetist's line. I did it for 2 years with no one challenging me for the seat. They knew that it was a very challenging and nearly thankless position. At least I had a position in both the symphonic and marching bands. I survived several cuts in the band that way.
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Author: 005
Date: 1999-11-09 00:33
in my orchestra I play second clarinet and it tends to have some melody to it. i was originally playing first but when auditions came the winner for 1st chair 2nd part really stunk so i was drafted to help her out (unfortunately)it's not that bad...
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Author: Ginny
Date: 1999-11-11 17:45
I recall that Bach (JS) prefered to play the inner parts when he did chamber music. The melody is so obvious.
I personally prefer singing harmony on those occasions I sing, because the melody is so obvious. I like playing harmony and blending.
But no one wants to "play second fiddle", another of these things where the primates have the social order and dominance thing be more important than the group product.
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