 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2003-09-18 12:50
I've been thinking of buying the cheapest bass clarinet that has a chance of playing. The two most common models in this category appear to be the Bundy and the Vito. Are there any significant differences between these two, quality wise or playability wise?
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-18 14:02
IMHO the important thing with a cheap bass clarinet is to get it serviced after you buy it, and not necessarily the skimpy sort of servicing you may get under guarantee.
It needs to be done by somebody who is familiar with the somewhat unique leak and venting problems that basses typically have. I suggest you ask the player of your local professional orchestra who he/she recommends.
I have often seen relatively new bass clarinets in a sad state, with several mouthpieces and heaps of reeds inside the case, evidence of how the player, perhaps with the misguided advice of a teacher or the sales outlet, has attempted to solve basic problems with the band-aid of these items.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-09-18 14:27
During my 34 yrs teaching middle school students how to play and (hopefully) take care of their instruments, the bass clarinets that seemed most "indestructable" were the Selmer Bundys. And when I needed to play a bass clarinet gig, the best playing bass clarinet in my inventory was an old, rather beat up looking Bundy Resonite. But, both the Bundy's and the Vitos--which my schooled owned in almost equal numbers--did have quite a history of easily going out of adjustment and were frequently in the shoppe for repair--the Vitos, more than the Bundys, however.
Vito vs Bundy?? It really depends on how each individual instrument plays and they are both reputable student line instruments. However, my preference was--and still is (even though I now own and play a Buffet Prestige bass) for the Bundy Resonite.
Repairs?? I would not characterize any student bass clarinet to be repairable by "Don, the Muffler Man" but most professionally trained repairpersons (need not be a woodwind specialist) are completely capable to do any and all manner of repair for any student bass clarinet.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-18 14:31
I personally prefer the ergonomics and sound of the Vito slightly over the Bundy/Selmer USA basses, but there are others who feel the opposite. They're both relatively simple, fairly rugged instruments with similar playing characteristics: expect the chalumeau registers to sound pretty good, the throat tones to be somewhat fuzzy, the lower clarion registers to be very resistant, stuffy and sharp in pitch, and the upper clarion registers to be rather honky and 'saxophonish' in tone quality. Also, the middle clarion notes (approximately F through A) may be flat in pitch and difficult to play with strength. Best advice to you is: get a really good mouthpiece first (e.g. Clark Fobes, Charles Bay, Walter Grabner, Roger Garrett, David Hite, Pomarico, even some of the Selmer C*'s), then go try a few examples of each of the brands of instrument and see what feels and sounds the best to you.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-18 21:45
J O'J - You have good advice re: student model Vito/Bundy BC's. Looking on EBAY, I'd suggest you enlist Dave Spiegelthal's advice and likely skillful repair re: the Dumont BC auction, 3 days to go. It has the highly-desireable {IMHO} double register key structure and the low Eb [which the Conns do not] and it may be a Malerne-made horn. Dave, there are some "junkers" up for auction, maybe of interest to you. My philosolphy is to get the best key structure, even if quite old, and be prepared for several hundred $ worth of repair to make it play well, like my Selmer 33, it took me several years to get it [and me] playing well, Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-19 18:21
Don,
You're forgetting the big foible of many old bass clarinets: soft keywork. Many of the older horns have delicate, flimsy rods and linkages which bend easily, causing leaks and general loss of adjustment. I'm currently renovating an old "Alfred Jourdian" bass which plays quite well but has such flexible keywork that I don't plan to sell it --- I recently made an unfortunate sale of a decent-playing M. Lacroix bass to a gentleman in England and even though the instrument was well-packed, the jostling during shipment caused the buyer to have to bring it to his local shop for some fairly significant readjustment and leak-fixing. The horn is so delicate he's afraid to play it on a gig! In contrast, modern bass clarinets are quite sturdy --- look at the Selmer 35/37 for example.
As for the 'junkers' currently on eBay as I write this (a Dumont and a Willclar), neither is a Malerne stencil as far as I can tell, and the more desirable of the two in terms of mechanism design (the Dumont) seems to have significant damage to both the mechanism and the neck (TWO patches!). Doing a decent "routine" bass clarinet overhaul is bad enough --- but most of these "junkers" are twice as much work and, being off-brands, are twice as hard to resell after overhaul as a "name" brand. Why should I spend 24 solid hours restoring a "Willclar" and then have to fight tooth-and-nail to sell it for $600, when I could spend half the time restoring a very mundane Noblet, for example, and easily get $900 for it after overhaul (even though the off-brand will likely play much better)? It's just not worth it, and personally I'm getting out of that business. Until people start looking past name brands with more open minds, I'm not going to take in any more little lost homeless bass clarinets. And I would advise anyone out there bargain-hunting for that mythical cheap bass clarinet to take a real close look at the up-front overhaul expenses involved and the long-term durability and reliability of the instrument.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-19 19:24
Well put, Dave, I understand. Guess I'm a bit like "Music Man" always dreaming of a boys band! The pics and "glowing" descriptions always seem like the "diamond in the rough" repairable, reliable bass clar, and are seldom worth doing! Will stick to my knitting [and Selmers]. Regards, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Dan1937
Date: 2003-09-20 21:10
FrankM:
It's my understanding that the Yamaha is the same horn as the Vito, just with a different label (I believe the Olds is the same instrument, as well).
--Dan
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-20 21:41
In New Zealand, with Yamaha catalogues coming direct from Japan, at least last time I checked, there was no such thing as a plastic bass.
A few years ago I asked a visiting Yamaha engineer about the only plastic Yamaha base I had work on, which I described as having typical Vito qualities, and none of the high quality I associate with Yamaha sopranos. He was clearly embarrassed, and in broken English, explained that Yamaha do not make bass clarinets. He said there were too many problems with linear heat expansion and contraction with a long plastic instrument.
So it is possible that Yamaha/Vito in USA is a different animal from Yamaha in Japan. So that leaves me wondering. When we talk about Yamaha in this forum, especially for student instruments, what you and I are talking about may be as different as Selmer Paris and other 'Selmer'.
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2003-09-21 18:46
The yamaha 221 is the one I'm interested in. It is my belief that this model breaks down to two pieces...maybe a solution to the problem Gordon mentioned regarding a long, one piece body. I hope to try one soon.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-22 13:58
Sorry, Mark. I am not up to date. Thanks for correcting me.
It has been difficult to keep up to date with Yamaha marketing here in NZ in the last couple of years, because Yamaha marketing here has gone down what to me is a very strange road which I personally do not see as appropriate for the quality and local profile of product. For example guarantee work now has to be shipped 400 miles from the largest city!
I think this made-in-Japan Yamaha pastic bass would definitely be worth considering, judging from what I know of all their other 'student' woodwinds.
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