 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-09-14 00:19
Can anyone tell me about Oven Seat Pads? I emailed a repairperson who advertised these as part of a repadding job. I was told that it was not a pad but a special industry process to seal the hole without allowing for any leaks.
A search in the archives yielded no results.
Can anyone add further enlightenment?
Thank you in advance.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-09-14 00:36
"Can anyone add further enlightenment?"
Not without a bit more information from that repairperson. It could be an adaptation of a flute pad process but really can't say without more to go on.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-09-14 01:06
Our local premier tech will use metal seating pad springs, and put flutes into a 212 degree (fahrenheit scale) for 4-7 minutes, in order to 'float' the pads into best alignment.
I would not want to put a wooden clarinet into that oven, not me!
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-09-14 01:24
Ron & SB, thanks for the inputs.
Ron: I did some further research on the input that you gave me. First I went to Askjeeves to see what I could find. Yes, there was an article by Ferree's about using a pad oven for flutes. However, the URL on the article would not open up.
I next tried www.jlsmithco.com to find out more info but nothing was available. (JL Smith deals almost exclusively with flutes.)
I next thought about Ferree's again. Since I had one of their catalogs on top of my computer, I decided to find out what I could.
Low and behold, on page 82 is an ad for a PAD OVEN. It goes on to state that it was originally intended for plastic pads, but, is also very useful in seating regular skin pads in clarinets. Then they go on telling about putting a few drops of water on the pads before popping them in the oven for 5 or 10 minutes. It states that you will have a permanent seal.
SB: I share your concern. I will call Ferree's next week and ask for further information. In order to seat the pads with a permanent seal, I suspect the temperature might be close to the numbers you presented.
I'll post more after I talk to them.
My thanks to both of you.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-09-14 06:55
Something doesn't sound quite right here.
There are numerous methods and processes for pad seating and techs usually settle on one or two favorite ones which work best for them.
But there are time-tested limits and two-hundred and twelve degrees is WAY too hot for a pad oven (even for metal flutes) and in my opinion 4 to 7 minutes, which I seriously doubt would be effective, is record-shattering time.
Without going into too much boring detail, the recommended heat source for a home made pad oven (which can also speed lacquer drying) is a couple of 40 watt light bulbs in a medium sized (non functional) refrigerator - maybe 60 watts if risk taking behavior turns you on.
- ron b -
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-09-14 10:23
It is a flute or even more specifically piccolo repair technique. 212 fahrenheit sounds a bit hot though. With double bladder flute and piccolo pads it is necesary to use heat to achieve proper seating. This is not a substitute for proper levelling which must be done first. The pads are then clamped and heated to achieve a proper seat. It has little do do with the floating itself, not applicable to flute anyway, but more with achieveing a compression ring in the pad skin and upper felt layer. A temperature of around 40 degrees celsius which is probably around 105 degrees fahrenheit will do and proper pad seating clamps are advisable. A common technique is to use a hair dryer or other hot air blower. The hard disk backing, plastic, of most skin clarinet pads precludes the use of a pad oven. Clamping on open pads is all you need and the close pads just need sufficient time with sufficient spring tension. DO NOT PUT A CLARINET OF ANY KIND IN A PAD OVEN!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-14 12:48
Mark is correct.
Some gentle heat (with gentle clamps) may be used on flute pads AFTER they are well adjusted. This forms a slight seat, or embedding of the felt. The 'hooks' on the wool fibres of the felt link (like the woollen garment washed in hot water!!) and add dimensional stability to the seating circle of the pad. Adjustment should always be checked after the use of such heat/clamp treatment, after a period of 'settling' without heat or clamps.
IMHO it is a very shoddy technician indeed (and many manufacturers seem to be in this category) who RELIES on this to achieve correct adjustment, on any instrument. Experience has given me some doubts as to whether this method still works when the pads use modern, more stable, 'treated' felt. Perhaps the 'hooks' of the felt have been filled with the treatment agent.
If a pad has a bed (rather than a very thin layer) of glue behind it, and a heat/clamp process is used to soften the glue to adjust the pad to align with the tone hole, then the result will always be a pad that closes securely on the pivot side (of the key cup), but poorly at the opposite side. Indeed, this phenomenon is used by astute technicians (with far more controlled heat and finger pressure) to adjust the alignment of a pad that is closing too lightly on the pivot side.
I agree, never put a timber or plastic clarinet in an oven.
The Ferrees oven is an overpriced alternative to an old domestic oven, which is what I use on occasions for flutes - the one in the kitchen of my home.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-09-14 18:36
Thanks everyone for your inputs.
Just a little added info: This repairperson has been professionally repairing for 31 years and has an extensive service record with schools, colleges, symphonies, private professionals, music stores and individual parents.
I must say this sounds quite impressive. IMO, it certainly gives the impression that this person knows what he or she is doing.
For the purpose of my investigation, I have decided to try and remain as neutral as possible.
I will try and contact Ferree's on Monday and ask as many questions as I can to learn more about the temperature, recommended time segment, whether anyone has reported any "mishaps" and whether Ferree's believes it's advantageous to do it this way.
If anyone has any other questions, please respond here and I will include them in my call.
This has certainly been a learning experience for me and I hope others have benefited as well.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-14 21:12
From my experience, having bought a large portion of the Ferrees range of equipment - some excellent, some very disappointing yet marketed for decades - I would not assume the expertise there that you seem to be assuming. Like most manufacturers/marketers, Ferrees is there to sell equipment, not for altruism directed at players or repairers.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-09-14 23:00
Gordon, I understand what you are saying but still think it worthwhile to find out all I can about this device which is marketed for seating pads in clarinets, flutes, and piccolos.
I'm expecting them to slant the verbage in their direction (as to safety, etc), and will take that into consideration.
I sense that no one else on this BB is using this technique otherwise they would have responded by now.
Thanks for your input.
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