 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2003-09-07 15:05
There seems to be a lot of adults on the BBoard who have taken up the clarinet again or for the first time. Our e-leader, Mark C. comes to mind. I am thinking of expanding into private teaching for adults. My questions to those on the list are: When you are taking lessons, what do you like to see in a teacher? What method books have you used that don't insult your intelligence as an adult learner (beside the usual old standby's like Klose or Rubank)? Do you have special needs for lesson scheduling? Do you have wish lists for teachers that you wish they would do for you....or not do to you? Thanks, John
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Author: William
Date: 2003-09-07 15:50
I am not an adult "beginner" by any means, but what I enjoy hearing from my listeners is "how good I sound" rather than, "you stink". It probably matters less what specific instructional materials you use, but rather the unconditional supportive nature of your instructional efforts that will be most appreciative. I always remember the best clarinet teacher I ever had who never told me that I was doing anything wrong--he would rather say, "good, but perhaps you could try this........." We all used to leave his lessons feeling good about what we had attempted, but more impotantly, eager to practice a play it next time, "perhaps this way". Adult students will be more candide in telling you shat they expect to achieve during their studies. Just listen and try to meet their personal needs, but above all, always try to say, "that was great--nice job--but maybe next time, try this......"
(Anyone who cares to know the name of my University master teacher can email me "on the side". He is retired from his Principal clarinetists position but still teaches)
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2003-09-07 16:51
I'm an adult student and speaking only for myself I loath method books. I much prefer playing actual pieces of music which is why I take lessons in the first place.
The main thing I believe to remember in adult education is that adults, unlike children are in classes for one reason, they want to be and they want it to be enjoyable. My rule of thumb when I teach adults (not in music which I don't teach) is that I treat them as I want to be treated. Doing scale drills for hours on end may be the most productive way to get a child from paoint A to B, but an adult, at least this adult, wants to make music and if you can accomplish both the skills and satisfy the underlying needs of the student at the same time, then you'll be successful.
Best
Rick
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-09-07 18:10
Wm and Rick, you express my thots very well. Even tho I've had only brief periods of non-playing in 70 some years, I still feel the student's desire to do better, but want to improve by playing music not exercises, community band and church orch p e . So, at times, my tonguing is poor, it takes some time to "work out" fingerings and expression, but its what I enjoy. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-09-07 19:32
As for special needs for scheduling, that I don't think is an issue since EVERYONE has special scheduling needs. Some people work a usual 9 - 5 mondat through friday. Some worm on weekends and have two days off in the week. So just be aware that if you start to take adults for lessons, sometimes their schedule just won't match up with yours in which case you won't be able to take them (even though it's nothing personal).
I'm taking lessons now as a college student (non-music major, just taking lessons to get better). I don't have any set routine or anything. My instructor focuses lesson time mainly on pieces to perform come lesson evaluation time and on sight-reading. He leaves the rest up to me. What you may decide to do is, instead of making them do drills during lesson time, assign them a bit of "homework". One scale a week. Certain etudes to work on on their own, and see how they progress. Stuff that maybe you didn't work on in lesson time, but you want them to work on themselves. This may be what you do anyways for children, but adults are more liable to take it more serious and actually DO the "homework" on their own.
Just don't be discouraged if progress seems to be a little slow. You have to take into consideration that they MAY not have a lot of time. Especially if they are in a job that frequently requires them to take work home, and/or have a family, etc.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: johnh
Date: 2003-09-07 20:45
As an adult beginner, I had no problems with method books, used the Cambridge Tutor. I found that like anyone, being able to play a tune (a sucess), even a short one, helped to keep me interested.
I am now in my third year of study. My instructor and I use Selected Duets by Voxman and the Rubank's Advanced Method.
What I really like about my instructor is that she sets very high standards, but is very rarely critical of my efforts. However, I am little different than most adult beginners in that I do practice at least an hour a day, six days a week. Not always easy when you work fulltime and want to have a life. But the rewards from the hard work are well worth it
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Author: jippyjapp
Date: 2003-09-07 23:11
Hi,
Im just in the process of looking for a teacher in the UK.
For me I will be looking for encouragement and recognition as I belive this will enhance my learning and my ability to play the clarinet.
As I work 6 days a week but my shifts wont start till midday at the earliest I dont think fitting my lessons in will be a problem as I have all morning 7 days a week.
Fees are also a factor (not the most important) and personaley I feel that you have to be able to understand what the teacher is talking about but not feel as if you are back at school and being made to do things.
When you are an adult student you are leaning because you want to not because you have to and it is your decission to be there so there are alot more issues involved in finding your teacher.
It also helps if you know what your own learning style is. By that I mean you know how you learn. For me I am a reflector and a theorist. I have to be able to go away and think about things and 'reflect' on them as well as having them in a certain order that I can make sense of them and understanding the background in to how and why things work like they do.
Hope that helps and isnt to confusing for you
all the best
Tj
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-09-08 01:25
I have been teaching myself for the past four years. i have also been going to the local college and have taken a few music classes. i have reached the point where i believe that working on scales is really important.
the main problem that i have and i believe that many seniors have is timing. i just can't play and count at the same time. this of course makes it hard to play with others. so as time goes on i will keep working on my timing and hope to improve in this area.
peaceg
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2003-09-08 01:36
I am an adult student. I returned after not playing for about 25 years. I like doing Rose and stuff like that. I do my scales but it's not my favorite thing but it's probably not on the top of anyones list. My goals are simple to play my part better in the community band than I currently can play it. That was my goal going in and is still my main goal.
Check out http://www.musicalfossils.com somebody recently posted this for another thread and I think it pertains to me. It gives insight into how an adult student may differ from a younger student.
I have all of the problems mentioned...my work can sometimes be so demanding that I have a hard time finding the time to practice. I think on those occassions it is good if the student can be honest with the teacher and maybe you can do a little sightreading or something along those lines to still have a productive lesson.
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2003-09-08 02:30
My teacher is very unstructured. Usually I run into something during the week into my practicing that I want to work on in my lesson, and that's what I do. He leaves it up to me. Sometimes I wonder if more structure would be better--like him giving me a particular thing to work on and then evauluating it when I have a lesson. But they way we are doing it seems to work. I guess I sort of give myself assignments by the pieces I pick out to play. I can say that I have made good progress in a year, so I guess what we're doing is working. I also prefer playing real music and finding problems or fingerings etc. to work on in real music, but I do use Rubank and another book occasionally. I'm sure scales are valuable. I just don't have the discipline to really work on them regularly.
Leonard
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2003-09-08 02:43
Thank you, all, for your excellent observations. The comments that caught my eye and seem most consistant is the need to play real music, real tunes. I tried teaching my father to play piano once and he jokes to this day about having to play something called "blow, blow, O March Winds" - he is 93 now. This came from a book supposedly for adults.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-09-08 18:51
Most adult learners are not overly ambitious regarding technique. They want to be able to play pieces of music well; scales, arpeggios and method books don't hold their interest long. Sometimes they do but their spouses often tire from them first.
Adults like to start making music as quickly as possible so beginning with a book of very simple duets is perfect. The book A Tune a Day is good for this.
Adults expect you to be on time and prepared for your classes. I don't recommend showing up late with a cup of coffee in your hand and then spending 15 minutes looking for a practice room. Before showing up at the lesson look at the book you've been having them go through and be familiar with what you did last week and what you will be covering this lesson.
Adults take their learning seriously and don't like to feel inept. Don't give them too much work because they will feel that they are falling behind. Find what they are able to accomplish week to week and give that amount. Because of time constraints: work, family, coctail parties, vacations, weddings, deaths, commutes and spouses it can be difficult to find the time to practice any more than they are doing so keeping the workload predictable is inportant.
You can try teaching through contra-example to develop the ear. After the student had played the musical phrase, mimic the phrase exactly as you heard them play it and then play it the way it should/could be played.
Good luck,
Ron Jr.
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Author: Meri
Date: 2003-09-09 17:35
The comments posted by some of the other BBoarders on this topic relates both being an adult student, and teaching them.
I started lessons with my first teacher a little more than three years ago, after asking one of the clarinet connections near where I live. He was not available that summer, but he referred me to his best friend, who used to play in Toronto's production of Phantom of the Opera. I knew about some of the things that I needed to improve back then, and he pointed out other playing issues that escaped me. He encouraged me to practice particular exercises, and to use books such as the 17 Staccato Studies and the Cavallini 30 Caprices to focus on specific issues, but never did he ask me to work on particular studies. He encouraged me to bring in my own pieces and duets (he was big on using duets on teaching), but he would try pieces from his own collection on me to see how they would work. He even encouraged students to write down what they wanted to discuss during lessons. Around the one year mark, he said to me that I had learned more in a year than many students in five.
As for teaching adult students, I'm currently teaching two of them (three if one of them would get back to me), one who is a relative beginner, which I am using "The Complete Clarinet Player" by Paul Harvey (he's currently learning a great version of "Money, Money, Money" and "Yellow Submarine", both in the first book of this series; there are 4 books), the other who plays quite well (he never had private lessons before), but has issues with counting in solo pieces (he is great in duets) and staccato tonguing, which I'm using solo pieces, exercises, and studies from various sources to improve these skills. The same student is also thinking about trying an exam. I usually recommend my adult students take lessons every other week in the first three months or so. I do have them learn some scales and arpeggios, but it's incorporated as part of the warmup exercise. Theory is also connected to the music they are learning.
What do adult students look for in a teacher? Someone who can articulate concepts clearly, someone who is organized in how they teach, someone who has high standards, someone who is patient, someone who can sympathize with their difficulties, someone who has a sense of humour, someone who teaches in a student-active way, and someone who respects the student's intelligence. But, most if not all of these teacher qualities apply in teaching students of all ages.
Meri
"There is a difference between being flat and sounding in tune, and being in tune but sounding flat. The first I can live with; the second I cannot."
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2003-09-11 16:44
As an adult late starter here's what I find important and valuable.
The teacher should select music that the student enjoys playing, whether show tunes, classical works, jazz, whatever. Use a method book that has music the student likes. As an adult, my musical tastes are pretty well formed.
If playing in a group is important to the student, playing duets with the teacher is very valuable for stressing timing. Good tunes played with incorrect timing still sound pretty good - until you have to play with someone else.
If the student wishes to understand what is going on in the music, the teacher should be able and willing to discuss music history and or theory.
The teacher should be able to link the student up with other players; should know about community bands, orchestras, garage bands that seek players at the appropriate level.
I like praise like everyone else but I don't judge the teacher on whether s/he makes me feel good; I do think, however, that I'd dump a teacher who regularly dumped on me.
The teacher should listen very carefully to what the student says in the first meeting about goals, objectives, likes and dislikes, amount of time available for practice, $$, etc. If the student wants something the teacher can't support, tolerate, or assist in, the teacher should recuse him/herself.
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